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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 02:21 pm |
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| Is it sin to lust and masturbate to your wife?
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growingfaith
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 04:19 pm |
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I guess my response is not so much to answer your question, but to ask one of my own. Why do you feel the need to masturbate while fantasizing about your wife?
Are you a traveling businessman who does not see her often? Or vice versa? Is she deceased? Are the two of you separated?
I find it difficult to think of any situations where I would find it acceptable for me to masturbate by myself - regardless of the object of my fantasies. And that is really the whole point. When I masturbated I turned whatever person I thought about into an object. Whether it's a porn actress, stranger, or my wife - when I masturbated I didn't appreciate them as human beings if they were the objects of my fantasy. I think my wife deserves more respect than being objectified in my mind for the sole purpose of my sensual gratification.
I don't know if that's how masturbation works with you, I'm just conveying my story and why I know that masturbating while fantasizing about my wife is not okay. Best of luck.
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 04:41 pm |
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I apologize, I should have identified myself. I'm the wife. My husband and I are separated. Before we were separated though, it seemed that he preferred M to sex with me sometimes. He usually used pornography, but now he uses me. He says he has no imagination so now that the pornography is gone, he uses pictures that we took a long time ago (which I have asked him to get rid of out of respect for me). I feel exactly how you described it...like an object. I feel like he just replaced the porn. Basically it's the same thing it's just that I'm not some stranger he'll never meet. But doesn't it lower me to the level of porn stars in his mind? Doesn't it make me the same thing? I feel like continuing to objectify me by M to me, I will just be an object to him if we do reunite and have sex.
Also, doesn't the Bible say lust is a sin? It shouldn't matter if it's a stranger or yoru wife...lust is lust isn't it?
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truthseeker
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 05:31 pm |
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Hi HopelesslyDesperate,
I'm not sure that I can think of anywhere in Scripture where lust is mentioned to be connected with marriage in any way. God's design for marriage is in uniting with one another, mutually, which is not occurring with M. My conservative position is, when in doubt, don't. I would hope that respect for your feelings would take precedence over his gratification. My opinion, not chapter and verse.
TruthSeeker
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 06:20 pm |
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greetings,
from a mans's stand point, i would have to examine my responsibility from scripture.
the command to husbands is to love your wife as Christ loved the church and GAVE Himself for it..
while the scripture gives a husband and wife great latitude in the marraige bed when it comes to mutual satisfaction you have clearly expressed your desires to your husband and what his lust does to you.
is not than the desire that your husband would give of himself for you, the foundation for healing in your relationship.
i would encourage your husband to examine his responsibility and the part he can play in making you feel wanted, protected and emotionally desired as one would protect someone/something very precious.
praying for your husbands healing,
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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love&hate
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 04:11 am |
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Lust is a drug and should not be relied upon whether it is in a marriage or out. As a guy i used to be confused with this myself. I used to think lust was natural as long as it was directed at your wife. However as i have grown older i have learned the difference between passion and lust. To me there is a black and white difference. In Scripture i can never recall the word lust being used in a postive manner.
However whether or not your husband masturbating to your pictures or not is a sin, that is a different question. To me this is not necessairily an objectfying issue (just my opinion as a guy that used to do the same) it may or may not. If you were together in my peronal opinion this would be an issue for concern. I am not married but i thought that if i was i would like to have my wife in a calender shoot or some other tastefull photograhpy. This would symbolize in my life my choice for her over some nameless woman and my addictions. However anything with nudity or sexuality attached should only be between you and him in the bedroom i feel. Anything with lust and you are playing with fire, a man is not in his right mind when on this drug. Boundaries are simply not respected at this time.
However if you are seperated this could complicate matters. Still not healthy in my mind but there are multiple reasons why porn addicts do what they do. Maybe part of this is his missing you.
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 02:14 pm |
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I used to think lust was natural as long as it was directed at your wife. However as i have grown older i have learned the difference between passion and lust.
Okay, my husband says now that it isn't lust, it's passion and desire. How can you have passion and desire for pictures? I'ts not me. It's a picture, just like all those pictures and videos of other women he used to look at. In a VERY abstract way, it's almost like rape. He's using my body against my will for his own sexual gratification. Given I'm not physically there, but doesn't that seem wrong?
Plus, he has always used M in conjuction with P. Then doesn't M open the door for Satan to flood his mind with all those old images he's trying to forget? Isn't it inviting temptation?
If you were together in my peronal opinion this would be an issue for concern. I am not married but i thought that if i was i would like to have my wife in a calender shoot or some other tastefull photograhpy. This would symbolize in my life my choice for her over some nameless woman and my addictions. However anything with nudity or sexuality attached should only be between you and him in the bedroom i feel. Anything with lust and you are playing with fire, a man is not in his right mind when on this drug. Boundaries are simply not respected at this time.
I understand that it must be hard since we are not together right now and cannot satisfy each other. But he has always liked his "(his name) time." He preferred it sometimes over having sex with me. Said it's just different. Maybe at that time, it was because he used pornography, so I guess it's possible that it might not be an issue if we were together, but how can I be sure of that? The pictures are not tasteful. They were taken when I was not following the Lord and had no respect for myself. They are provocative and I have asked him countless times to get rid of them out of respect for me, and it is clear he still has none. As far as boudaries go, shouldn't he respect that I consider this a boundary that he keeps stepping out of?
However if you are seperated this could complicate matters. Still not healthy in my mind but there are multiple reasons why porn addicts do what they do. Maybe part of this is his missing you.
He does say that he misses me and it's how he can be "connected" to me. To me, it feels like it is disconnecting us even more. We are separated for a reason. We aren't having sex for a reason. Can't he respect that? At first my feelings were hypocritical. I still M myself yet was upset that he would. I didn't use any images of course, just what was in my head. When I realized this I stopped. My H was not the only image in my mind. It gave Satan every opportunity to fill my head with impure thoughts and I don't even have porn images ingrained in my mind. I can't imagine how he can keep his thoughts focused on me, without lust, if I can't and I'm not an addict.
Last night my H and I had this disagreement. When I got off of the phone with him, I wanted to M and had impure thoughts. I asked God to take the thoughts from my mind and he did and I was able to sleep in peace. Why can't he do the same?
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TimM
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 03:43 pm |
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HD,
There's not a lot I can add to your last post. Everything you say is right. If there is intimacy between you, then he should be willing to respect your clear boundaries and your clear desires about something very personal. It's unfortunate he cannot.
Again, I don't have much advice, but I wanted you to hear the voice of someone on the other side of the fence here saying that every part of your analysis is right.
Tim M.
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Thu Apr 19th, 2007 03:49 pm |
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| Thank you. I appreciate your honestly. Validation from someone on the other side makes a big difference.
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 03:01 pm |
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Just on a side note, I'm surprised how easily Satan is able to infiltrate our minds. I only decided to stop M a couple nights ago and haven't for maybe a week. Since I decided not to do it anymore, the thoughts have been plaguing me. I didn't think it would be this difficult for me because I never really did it that much in the first place. I never had all of these thoughts before. It's like now that I made a stand for God in this area, Satan is trying to tempt me in any way he can. He's attacking my mind. I realize now that it's easier to ignore thoughts of being with another man because that involves another person and "someone would know." But M is private. It on my conscience alone. The Lord takes the thoughts from me every time I ask Him to, but it's kind of annoying being flooded with them out of nowhere sometimes. If this is proving to be so difficult for me, how can my H be successful? His thoughts must be far more graphic than mine. I don't think he knows to just ask God to take the thoughts away, though I've told him He will.
PS...he said he would get rid of the pics if I really want him to and abstain from M until we're together, but that he probably will once in a while when we are back together. I tried to explain how inadequate that makes me feel and he just doesn't get it. I feel like no sound comes out of my mouth or like I'm speaking a completely different language.
GUYS...how can we get through to you?
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 03:36 pm |
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Hi HD,
Well, I understand, but I'm a woman. Why in the world would anyone want to have an orgasm alone rather than unite with the one they love the most in the entire world? It would say to me, "You're nice, but just not enough."
Pictures ONLY in your hands.
TruthSeeker
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geeky_student
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Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2007 02:15 am |
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EWWWWWWWWW!!!!
sin is yuck
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For God, for her, for my parents, for own good.
tip: when tempted, think of God, think of that special someone you love. 
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Unearthed
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 03:08 pm |
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If my husband were to masterbate to some pics of me while I said I forgave him for looking at porn, but I still refused him the sexual release that he needed, I do not think the Bible would consider that lust or adultry. On the contrary, LUST is an evil desire to have sex with someone who is NOT your wife. The Song of Solomon is full of the strong sexual desires of a spouse for their mate...and the Bible is silent on masterbation although it is clear about self control. If your wife says she forgives and is withholding...what recouse do you have that is a legitimate? The Scripture's warn couples to only hold back by mutual consent in this area and not to forbid each other your bodies lest the devil bring you into temptation...further it is suggested by Paul that it is better to marry than to burn with passion...
I think too many women do not understand the power of her husband's natural sex drive and discounting that fact or using it as a weapon to train him or purge him from looking at other women while not allowing him to have her either is cruelty. Maybe the real issue is the wife's ability to recover sufficiently from the shock and pain of discovering his porn, rather than imposing an edict that he cannot act out his strong desire for her while she refuses him during her emotional recovery? Just my thoughts...I fear that this is too harsh and legalistic for some. There has to be give and take if forgiveness is is sincere, especially if there is repentance.
The wife is not an object, but for pities sake, a man who is not desiring his wife and is not visually attractive to her is in trouble. I would be happy if my husband wanted me.
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 04:13 pm |
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Unearthed, I have a lot of things I would like to say to you right now, but thank the Lord for holding my tongue. All I'll say is that I would also be happy if my husband wanted me too...ME, not just my body. Congratulations for being able to completely separate your heart from your body to have sex with your husband. I can't do that. I would feel like a whore being used. I'm not using it as a weapon or to train him and how dare you accuse something like that. It took a lot to come to the point of forgiveness, but it doesn't mean evereything is peachy now. So I should just lay down and take it even if I cried the whole time? Even if it felt like rape? Having sex with him when I'm disgusted by him would make me feel dirty like I was the one who was unfaithful. I know because I tried. There was one point where I tried to give up any happiness for myself and just give him whatever he wanted. I figured, as long as one of us could be happy, then it would be okay. It didn't work. He didn't see it, but I cried for hours after. I don't know my H anymore. He's a stranger to me. I'm so glad you are able to give yourself so freely, but don't assume things you know nothing about. I know what the Bible says. This time is for prayer (lots of prayer) and it is mutual. It's justified. I'm refusing the sexual release that he needs? If he needs that release so badly as to hurt me for it again, he might as well go back to porn.
PS...Lust is sin, not with specifications and exceptions.
Last edited on Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 04:44 pm by HopelesslyDesperate
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Unearthed
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Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 05:36 pm |
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These Biblical principles are valid just as all of your feelings and responses are..... but there comes a time when you may need to find a way to set aside your natural responses especially if he is repenting and if you want to keep the marriage. The part of this whole thing is that Scripture does give you freedom to divorce because of this, and you may very well be the kind of person who may end up doing just that...not because of being vindictive, but because of what happened to your heart. I am just saying to try to look at it from all viewpoints, including your husbands, because the sad fact is that he wont be able to tolerate the situation indefinately. He will become bitter because you are blocking all avenues of release for him with what looks like indefinately....like telling a glutton that they must not eat a single thing, even that which is necessary to sustain life. There must be GRACE given for repentance, and timing is critical.
I am no rock, I think of leaving everyday, but I am much older than you and have come to terms about our humanity, sin, and repentance. I can only seperate the hurt because of his repentance...that does not mean I do not feel anything, I think of leaving every day but do not act on it for his sake and for the sake of our family. I can choose to stay and live with him in an understanding way as long as he is repenting.
You may not know, I have only been married to my husband for 11 months, all the while I felt that there was "something wrong" but was unable until a few weeks ago to find proof. Prior to me, he was married twenty years to another wife who never discovered this problem, but at the same time, she is the type who does not want to know. She was sexually molested all her years growing up until she left home at 18 and had never been healed...as a result, did not enjoy or want sex with him but would yield every two or three weeks, this was the best she could do with counseling. This got old over the years for both of them, he got frustrated, verbally abusive, and eventually he left feeling defeated and without hope. Eight months roll by, she would not let him back home, and after she filed for legal seperation and a restraining order, he gave up. Yes he is weak, and that is the point. His porn went undiscovered and I believe with all my heart that it was God's judgement on the relationship which led to the divorce because of the porn, but also her inability to face the part she could play in reconciling, discovery and healing. Adopting the idea that "sex is sex, and love is love" was his justification and response to being starved for his desire for his wife, and now it has to be removed so our marriage can survive. But that is our story, not yours.
During that time of their separation, she thought it necessary to taunt him with delivering a watermelon with a hole cut in it to his work...then at another time, asked if he wanted to have sex with her (he said yes, you are still my wife) then got mad at his answer saying she felt like nothing but a "hole" to him. Another time when he told her he was getting very weak, she told him that he had two good hands and to use them. What is my point? She was a prime candidate for utilizing the freedom to divorce, her disgust for him and inability to reconcile her feelings became sealed as time went on (can you imagine if she knew about the porn too?). I am worried that this same kind of scenerio may happen to you two. Please accept my apologies if the principles I presented to you dont work for where you are at during this time....they did not work for my husband's ex wife either. Truly, I do not know how I will react if I find my husband viewing more porn after repenting, if I will be able to forgive enough to continue having sex with him (which is my moral obligation if I expect to stay married), or if I will just simply leave and never look back.
In Him,
Unearthed
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Steve
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 03:00 pm |
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HopelesslyDesperate wrote: Is it sin to lust and masturbate to your wife?
My only input is to consider asking yourself different questions:
- Does this behavior glorify God?
- Does it make me more Christ-like?
- Does it lead me into a more deeper relationship with God?
What do you think? I would be interested in reading your reflections!
All the best,
Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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HopelesslyDesperate
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 04:26 pm |
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| I believe that the answer to all of your questions is no. My H told me that although he doesn't agree with me, he has stopped M altogether so that we can both have this time (separation) as a sexual fast. He's having a tough time, however, because he has never NOT had a release whenever he wanted. I just pray for God to keep him strong and not let Satan weasel his way into my H mind and put images there that he is weakened by. I don't think he has ever gone more than maybe a week or two without some sort of release since he lost his virginity so I understand how this can be very difficult for him.
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Steve
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 05:08 pm |
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Oh, oh, oh ... I did not realize that you were the female spouse who typed this message. I think I am on the "same page" as you now!
Regarding the challenges your husband is likely facing with stopping masturbation and seeking purity, I am curious: Is your husband involved in any kind of accountability? Does he go to a group regularly that is focused on sexual purity issues? To be honest, I have not seen many men get truly free of this until they enter into such contexts.
Also, let me add just one more thought.
My H told me that although he doesn't agree with me, he has stopped M altogether so that we can both have this time (separation) as a sexual fast.
Red light! Red light! The fact that he is doing this for reasons other than the fact that it hurts his relationship with God (if he even has one) is concerning. In my experience, I've found brokeness and humility are the two absolutes needed for a sex addicted man to allow God to really transform his life. Let me put it another way that has been a recent theme in my personal recovery and the work I do with others.
There are two attitudes:
THIS WORKS: As a empty person who desperately needs God's help, I will do whatever it takes to get free of my addiction. (Or I will face and go through whatever healing issues that are necessary to get free of this.)
THIS DOESN'T WORK: What can I get away with not doing and still have acceptable results with staying away from my addiction? (Or How can I "get by?")
May I ask: Based on your husband behaviors (not words; words are cheap), is your husband's mindset in the first or the second category?
I apologize if I rambled, lectured or gave unwarranted advice. These were just some things on my heart as I read your post. Feel free to comment, reflect or ask questions as you feel comfortable.
All the best,
SteveLast edited on Wed May 2nd, 2007 05:13 pm by Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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dennis1soil
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Posted: Sun Jul 1st, 2007 07:40 am |
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HopelesslyDesperate wrote ... How can you have passion and desire for pictures? I'ts not me. It's a picture, ... ... He's using my body against my will for his own sexual gratification. ...
Hi HopelesslyDesperate,
This thread you opened brings to my mind some "definition of terms" which I have struggled with - and it seems my wife has had a hard time understanding how I have understood the famous verse where Jesus talks about "LUST". Actually I think there are many terms that sometimes mean different things to different people and this "failure to communicate" I think is most likely one of the causes of so much of our relational pain.
I think I am may be able to identify some with what your husband may have felt (I see the dates of these posts are awhile back now). From your comments, I expect you have felt the same kind of pain my wife has felt.
I don't want to try here to defend where your husband may be coming from (actually I don't even know if he would resonate with what I am about to say) - perhaps I mainly want to say some of this in hopes of hearing how others here may respond. So please don't consider what I am saying as being in any way callous of your hurt - I think this post is probably more about my struggles (and probably rationalizations) rather than necessarily about your specific situation.
As I read your words (the excerpts I put in the quote box above) - I could be wrong, but I get the impression that you may be somewhat ambivalent as to whether the pictures he looks at were "just pictures" or were they more, do you think maybe they are "my body"?
Maybe the most important thing is what HE thinks those pictures are.
Of course I don't how he views those pictures - but I can tell you how I have viewed pictures - not so much of my wife, instead types like of the playboy-centerfold variety.
For years, I personally considered non-lurid photographs of women's bodies as "just pictures" -- and of equal significance -- I considered such images as a generic example of the beauty of the female form.
On the other hand -- ever since the time I first told my wife about how I have a hard time keeping away from viewing such photographs -- I think she has been of the opinion that viewing a photograph of a (any) woman has somehow established a connection between myself and the body of the woman who posed for the photograph. (Perhaps this, along with Jesus' famous statement, helps to explain why some people feel a man is guilty of adultery even when he has "only" looked at - and enjoyed - a photograph of a woman who is not his wife).
......
( To try to explain what I mean when I use the words "generic example", I'll compare with some aspects of the way I look at a landscape type of painting of ... say a mountain in Colorado. The principle differences between the landscape and the way I view a nude photograph are (of course) the nude invokes pleasurable sexual feelings, and also I consider a woman's body much more beautiful than any mountain (but I'd say mountain views are probably next on my list, hence this analogy) -- the similarity is where the concept of "generic example" comes in - I'm not really interested about which SPECIFIC mountain inspired the painting, rather I simply enjoy seeing the beauty of "mountain" in general. Perhaps this concept, in one way, may be roughly analogous to Plato's "ideal" - though it's not like I consider a particular mountain - or a particular woman's image to be more "ideal" than another ... rather I have just enjoyed the beauty of the forms God made (in either case), without any kind of specific unique "relationship" entering into the "picture" - in fact, in the case of the nude photos, I intentionally trained myself to keep any "personal relationship aspect away from entering my mind at all. You will see as I continue, that when I trained myself not to think of any specific woman being associated with such photos, I thought I was doing that in order to stay away from "sin". (Later as I became married I learned God has made many women so they associate sexual enjoyment in a very different different way - that is, they believe to avoid sin, a specific and very "personal relationship" needs to be present when enjoying sexual feelings).
.....
I want to explain something concerning how I viewed the definition of the key word "LUST" .... When I was very young (around 6 years old), a pubescent girl who lived nearby would disrobe before me on a regular basis. I don't remember a lot of specifics about those times, other than that I enjoyed and encouraged it. When these episodes were happening I don't remember thinking about anything in relation to "good" or "bad". However, as I grew older (btw - I am a pastor's son), I began to get the impression that perhaps some folks think "LUST" is present any time a person is enjoying anything related to sexual feelings.
So later, I learned about the famous saying of Jesus about Lust and how it is linked to adultery. I was confused initially, because I also learned something to the effect that enjoying sexual feelings is supposed to be OK for a husband and wife together "personally" --- so I figured "LUST" must not be quite as simply defined as just enjoying sexual feelings.
Since Jesus used the word "Adultery" in that sentence, I tried to understand what that word means, and eventually I learned it usually involved a person willingly enjoying sexual feelings aroused by a person with whom they have not entered into a lifetime commitment through marriage. Now in another verse very close by the one where Jesus made that famous statement about lust, he also talked about how being angry can be like killing someone -- so (from that) I reasoned how the intent of the heart must be factoring into what Jesus meant by lust and adultery (in a similar manner as anger and murder).
When I was about 8 - I found a bunch of Playboy type magazines that had been blowing around out in the desert where I played across the street from where we lived on the outskirts of Tucson. At this point I had begun to link the idea of "bad" with sexuality to some extent, so I was faced with a real predicament ... On the one hand --- my body very much enjoyed the feeling associated with seeing those photographs -- but on the other hand, I knew many of the people I loved very dearly would likely consider me to be "LUSTing" if I willingly looked and enjoyed.
Here is what I did --- I decided I would need to consider those photographs to be simply representative of the way the body of my wife would one day appear. I couldn't seem to make myself simply "stay away" from those kinds of photos, but I knew if I continued to look - I would have to be very careful about the desires of my heart and what my mind thought about. I figured if I were to desire specifically to be with a specific woman (who posed for the photograph), and hence connect in my mind those photographs with a real person for instance by fantasizing about some sexual interaction specifically between myself and "her" - since she who was not my wife - then I knew that type of desire and mind process would in fact qualify as what I considered to be the definition which I thought Jesus must have meant when he used the word "LUST".
So basically, here is what I ended up with in later life after I got married. When I am with my wife I strive to "see" her not as a generic female (which I had trained myself to do with the photos before marriage), but rather as the specific and very wonderfully unique woman God designed especially so we can enjoy a "personal relationship". So - once I married, there became two ways I could enjoy sexual feelings - the one way I learned throughout young boyhood and extending on till marriage (we married at age 18 and have now been married over 30 years) - and the other (much better) way through personal involvement with the very "real" specific woman who was/is my wife.
In retrospect I wish I had not been so sexually oriented (starting at age 6). I understand that personal involvement is what God intends - but has always been very tempting to go back to the "easy" way to find a sexual release - because those images don't expect me to be a decent person. For me, (and I suspect there are many differences unique to each person), by teaching my mind to "go blank" when looking at nude photos - that activity became associated with an easy way to get some relief from a racing mind and stress. Nobody realized it in my early years, however in recent years I've been diagnosed as being bi-polar and I also have been plagued with various mental/emotional "issues". Sometimes I wonder if my strange rationalization techniques may have contributed to my mental/emotional "issues".
Well, now I realize the length of this post became too long a long time ago.
I'm sorry for getting so graphically specific.
I suppose there is a lot more that could be said about our long hard journey to arriving at a better marriage after I first told my wife about "my problem" - I guess if anyone is interested, I could continue in another post.
-Dennis
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Tears4Us
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Posted: Tue Jul 10th, 2007 07:22 pm |
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I have been in prayer for a few days in how to go about replying to this post or even if I should, after much prayer and thought I have chosen to reply.
without giving a long drawn out post. Dennis I want to ask you this....
Where in the bible did Jesus say "LUST' was okay. What a husband and his wife shares is intimacy there is a huge difference. This is what Jesus said
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Matthew 5:27-28
Here you are missing a key word, and that word is looketh. When you look at a women "generic" or not and lust it is sin, it does not say it is like committing adultery, it says you have committed adultery. Maybe this is why when we are women find out that our husbands have been viewing porn we feel like we have been cheated on, why? because we have been. Pure and simple. By the way there is no such thing as "generic" women. They are real, they are someone's daughter, mother, wife or sister. Just because they are in a photo airbrush and computer enhanced does not mean that they are not real. The feelings you get from the photos are real so are the women. Maybe it is time to rethink what you were thinking at the age of eight.
I do not mean to sound harsh, but we as sinners always try to find away to justify our sin even at the expense of twisting scripture to say something it does not. I asked my husband once "Are you upset that you hurt me, or you upset that you got caught and God showing you the truth hurts because your flesh wants to continue in the sin." He was honest and told me his flesh wanted to continue, so he went on the scripture search to prove to me that it was okay and I set out to show him how he was taking God's word out of context. God won.
Do not be deceived my friend, when Jesus said if you look at a women and have sexual desires you are committing adultery. Where do those that commit adultery go? Lust of the eye is not of God.
For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1 John 2:16
I will be more then happy to go over the scriptures with you, I am sure there are many here that will also be a light, so if you would like to start a thread on the subject feel free to do so.
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