| Author | Post |
|---|
Jeff298
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 25th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |  |
|
Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 05:54 pm |
|
I noticed that on another thread a woman talked about masturbation as a way to overcome lust. This struck me because I find myself doing the same thing. I am frustrated with having so much lust in my life. IT seems to come and go like a tide and I never know when the tide is going to role in.
|
sam
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 244 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |   |
|
Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 06:55 pm |
|
hi jeff,
m is def not a way to overcome lust. it just feeds the desire to do more and more of it. it's like feeding a beast, the more you feed it the bigger and meaner it becomes. i can very much identify with the tide coming and going. i will be in prayer for you.
bless you,
sam
|
truthseeker
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 796 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 07:07 pm |
|
Hi Jeff,
Welcome to BG.
I'm not sure of which thread you speak, but please keep in mind that people have posted many opinions here in the midst of their struggles. That does not mean that everything you read is going to exhibit a biblical, healthy perspective. We try to give some latitude for self-expression, but if you look for the article about masturbation on the
Blazing Grace
home page, you will see that it is not in any way promoted by the founder of the ministry.
TruthSeeker
|
refiningfire
Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 12:27 am |
|
I know that it is sin for me. I would say the opposite of what you have heard said, that in giving this thing up I overcame lust. You ask anyone that uses M to over come lust if they have really gotten rid of lust for good. It is only a distraction. If you actually had overcome lust you would not need anything to overcome lust because nothing would be further from your mind than M. and lust.
You have people who are all struggling with Lust on this forum giving advice on how to overcome lust. It does not make much sense but I do want to put people down who are well meaning. I know however that it would be wise to check who is giving advice.
And, you do not need M as some seem to say I have done very well without it. in fact I have more balance in my life because of not doing it. My last word is that I did not think I could have repented of my sin of Lust without giving up everything including M.
____________________
2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
|
bil4913
Administrator
|
Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 04:29 pm |
|
Grateful for the honesty on this topic. I'd like to weigh in as well.
For me, the question "is it wrong?" is the wrong question. The only question I need to ask is "is it wrong for me?"
For me, a recovering sex addict, I am too stupid to be able to masturbate without lusting or escapism. The temptation to go into fantasies about other women, to enhance it with erotic and non-erotic material, or to use it to shield myself when I'm experiencing uncomfortable feelings that need attention - dude, I don't have the wisdom and discipline to "use it" healthily. SO......for ME the best option, the least complicated option, the only truly guit-free option, is to NOT. And I don't.
I had a friend who was deathly allergic to almonds. For him, eating almonds, therefore was a sin. It isn't for me and he would be wrong to impose his issue onto me.
Masturbation is my "almonds". (Bad grammar, I know!). And so, I don't even ask, "is it wrong for me?" because the moral argument has never worked for me in addiction recovery. Rather, I ask, "do I like the results when I....?" I don't. Bad things happen to my relationship with my wife, my time management, mywillingness to deal honestly with the life I've been given.
My friend, Bart Campolo has defined sin has anything that diminshes my capacity to love God and His people. For this man, masturbation is in that number.
Hope this helps.
BIL
|
refiningfire
Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2008 06:37 pm |
|
I think you said it well
____________________
2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 09:18 pm |
|
I'm still here since February 2007 and still finding it uncomfortable to do this (to carry on with it and tolerate it), even though the pornography is no longer an element and hasn't been for many months. It's also no easier to stop and I am despairing at how to do that but keep trying. I have no doubt about it being sin but then that's my conscience speaking and I can't speak for anybody else.
|
refiningfire
Member
| Joined: | Sun Feb 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 10:39 pm |
|
These verses do not mention Mastubation but they might relate in a sort of way. Masturbation has been found to make some men not be able to control his erection and thus not be able to keep it back until he has sex thus stealing his wife from the pleasure of sex. This to me seems selfish. Masturbation is self gratifying but God wants us to be generous and sex is supposed to please the other person. Masturbation makes someone think of sexual arrousel as something to please self and it is intended as somthing for pleasing another person. Another thing is I do not know how you can do it without thoughts comming to your mind. These verses talk about sexuality.
1 John 2 (New Life Version)
15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the Father's love is not in him. 16 For everything that is in the world does not come from the Father. The desires of our flesh and the things our eyes see and want and the pride of this life come from the world. 17 The world and all its desires will pass away. But the man who obeys God and does what He wants done will live forever.
Galatians 5
16 I say this to you: Let the Holy Spirit lead you in each step. Then you will not please your sinful old selves. 17 The things our old selves want to do are against what the Holy Spirit wants. The Holy Spirit does not agree with what our sinful old selves want. These two are against each other. So you cannot do what you want to do. 18 If you let the Holy Spirit lead you, the Law no longer has power over you. 19 The things your sinful old self wants to do are: sex sins, sinful desires, wild living, 20 worshiping false gods, witchcraft, hating, fighting, being jealous, being angry, arguing, dividing into little groups and thinking the other groups are wrong, false teaching, 21 wanting something someone else has, killing other people, using strong drink, wild parties, and all things like these. I told you before and I am telling you again that those who do these things will have no place in the holy nation of God. 22 But the fruit that comes from having the Holy Spirit in our lives is: love, joy, peace, not giving up, being kind, being good, having faith, 23 being gentle, and being the boss over our own desires. The Law is not against these things. 24 Those of us who belong to Christ have nailed our sinful old selves on His cross. Our sinful desires are now dead.
Ephesians 2
1 At one time you were dead because of your sins. 2 You followed the sinful ways of the world and obeyed the leader of the power of darkness. He is the devil who is now working in the people who do not obey God. 3 At one time all of us lived to please our old selves. We gave in to what our bodies and minds wanted. We were sinful from birth like all other people and would suffer from the anger of God. 4 But God had so much loving-kindness. He loved us with such a great love. 5 Even when we were dead because of our sins, He made us alive by what Christ did for us. You have been saved from the punishment of sin by His loving-favor. 6 God raised us up from death when He raised up Christ Jesus. He has given us a place with Christ in the heavens. 7 He did this to show us through all the time to come the great riches of His loving-favor. He has shown us His kindness through Christ Jesus.
8 For by His loving-favor you have been saved from the punishment of sin through faith. It is not by anything you have done. It is a gift of God. 9 It is not given to you because you worked for it. If you could work for it, you would be proud. 10 We are His work. He has made us to belong to Christ Jesus so we can work for Him. He planned that we should do this.
1 Peter 2
11 Dear friends, your real home is not here on earth. You are strangers here. I ask you to keep away from all the sinful desires of the flesh. These things fight to get hold of your soul.
Mark 714 Jesus called the people to Him again. He said, "Listen to Me, all of you, and understand this. 15 It is not what goes into a man's mouth from the outside that makes his mind and heart sinful. It is what comes out from the inside that makes him sinful. 16 You have ears, then listen!" 17 He went into the house away from all the people. His followers began to ask about the picture-story. 18 He said to them, "Do you not understand yet? Do you not under-stand that whatever goes into a man cannot make him sinful? 19 It does not go into his heart, but into his stomach and then on out of his body." In this way, He was saying that all food is clean. 20 He said, "Whatever comes out of a man is what makes the man sinful. 21 From the inside, out of the heart of men come bad thoughts, sex sins of a married person, sex sins of a person not married, killing other people, 22 stealing, wanting something that belongs to someone else, doing wrong, lying, having a desire for sex sins, having a mind that is always looking for sin, speaking against God, think-ing you are better than you are and doing foolish things. 23 All these bad things come from the inside and make the man sinful."
2 Peter 1 (NIV)
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
____________________
2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
|
idjit
Member
| Joined: | Tue Feb 19th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 34 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 05:07 am |
|
Hi! It's funny because I was just thinking about m. (like usual).
I had a couple thoughts, nothing major but would love some feedback.
Self-control: encompasses flesh-control, mind-control, mouth-control, heart control
Self-control is "you" (your spirit, your enernalness):
a) accepting that "you" don't want lust and God died for your freedom from it.
b) taking captive the thoughts to the contrary
1) believing that it is not necessary.
2) having a vision for what freedom looks like (this is why I find testimonies of people who are blissfully free of this BONDAGE and SLAVERY and COMPULSION and SHAME to be so uplifiting).
c) actually desiring to please God more than your self
c) telling "your" flesh that it cannot indulge in this thing which "you" should not have.
I am not walking in blissfull freedom from this sin, but I have never in my life thought it attainable. Not until I read the people here walking in joy, peace and love, and yet without orgasm!! amazing! orgasms are not required for living, and may actually cause you to have a crappy life, run from God, be unsuccessful, be condemned. I am developing a vision and an excitement for it's fulness: a peaceful mind, a sanctified body, a rigorous and confident love for God, control of the calamity that is my lust, bedrock character with peace.
I am new here to this forum.
2 weeks p free
working on the m
I would also say as a side note that as much as I would like to demonize p/m even more, p/m never caused me to finish quickly in bed. Truth is I could never climax without imagining pornographic thoughts. I would say that out of all the times my wife and I made love, I was "with" her maybe a dozen. In nine years. What a horrible, degrading, destructive addiction.
Last edited on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 05:09 am by idjit
|
hans45
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | Dallas, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 109 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 03:00 pm |
|
I have heard a lot of people say, what is sin for one person is not necessarily sin for another. If masterbation is a sin for one it has to be for all. I don't believe a man can masterbate without a lustful and perverted thought pattern. Not only that, you are sinning against your own body. Until a person overcomes this, I don't believe he can serve God in a full and proper manner. It builds a wall between you and God and the longer it goes on the higher and higher that wall gets. This porn and mb. thing is staring me right in the face every morning when I wake til I go to sleep at night. God is there also and I have decisions to make. The Lord has blessed me after 30 something years of this sinful habit. I cannot say I am cured but do know that He is working on me profusely. I find myself in Godly thoughts and actions that I've never experienced before. His love and His will are much more powerful than any sin one can imagine.
Masterbation can be overcome. Not by your will but by the will of God. I pray for everyone here today that God will have His will and His way in all aspects of your lives. God bless all.
Dennis
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 10:06 pm |
|
I can honestly say that thoughts do not come to my mind and no conjuring up of old pornography. So if it's possible for me then I hardly think I am alone.
It's still sin, whether there is imagery, fantasy, or not.
|
TG_Struggle
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 5 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2008 04:56 pm |
|
I need to add from my own experience to this.
I kept away from P for over 1-1/2yrs, but M had always been a weekness. At times few and far between. It was very rare to M without the fantasy of my wife pleasing me in one form or another.
It is because of that, that my wife saw through me. My fantasies of her weren't coming true. That brought about the thoughts that she doesn't want to please me anymore, so I fell deeper into my addiction.
The fantasy breaks the natural flow of desire for each other during intimacy. It has only been a couple of weeks since I have been on the wagon, but it feels like yesterday. I miss the strong desires of love during intimacy. All because of, acting out my fantacy with self pleasure.
In short, M starts out innocent but at Gods will, it slowly destroys.
With Gods grace and love, we are hear to see the pain and anguish SA creates, enabling us to work on understanding.
(excuse any spelling errors )
____________________
Everyone has fear. It is in God that we can overcome and persever.
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 08:12 pm |
|
TG Struggle, what do you mean when you say that it starts out innocent? I don't see that it is innocent ever.
|
TG_Struggle
Member
| Joined: | Fri Mar 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 5 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 10:26 pm |
|
G63,
The only time I can say innocent is when I was to young to know any better, 12-13yrs old. At that time I didn't have a clue.
I have told myself many times that if it's part of me and nobody else, then who is to say that M is so wrong. The hard part though is keeping the eyes closed to what is going on around you. Self satisfaction gives a natural high, that keeps any hurt feeling from touching you. I have found that I didn't have to many long painful feelings. I was always able to keep anything emotional buried, as if it didn't even touch me. Unfortunately, no actually by the grace of God, I have woken up to see how much pain I have caused my family. The thorn in my eye kept my emotions closed. The pain I felt was only short lived. Someone told me that with out the emotional pain we will never grow. I would add to the fact that God's gift of wisdom never grows without the emotional pain that we endure.
Like I read in a post earlier. It is innocent when young, but when adulthood comes, there is something telling you it is not right. The choice is ours to listen or to ignore. By Gods love, patience, understanding, and grace, he is doing his work to help us keep our eyes open and become wiser to his words.
____________________
Everyone has fear. It is in God that we can overcome and persever.
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24th, 2008 11:52 pm |
|
TG Struggle, thanks for your explanation. There's always a first time for every sin. I remember the first time I did.
|
jcteacher52
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 12 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 02:32 pm |
|
overcoming lust by mastrubating is like putting a fire outby pouring gasoline on it.
the lust is always in my mind. and the M just makes encourages me to lust more.
David
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:06 pm |
|
David,
Good analogy. Yes, if you have a fire, you don't want to pour gasoline on it! I make no excuses for masturbation. I want to be free but realizing after over a year of attempting to stop that it's not as easy to stop as it looks.
My pastor says about this - "Stop it!" Walk in the opposite direction. Perhaps what I lack is the faith to believe it is as simple as that.
Last edited on Sun Jun 15th, 2008 08:08 pm by guitarist63
|
jcteacher52
Member
| Joined: | Wed Jun 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 12 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Jun 17th, 2008 03:17 am |
|
I think it is simple, but at the same time it is almost impossibly hard.
The flesh is so strong, and I know the Lord is stronger, but only if I give Him control
It is so difficult to keep Him first in my mind and heart. and everytime I put the flesh to death it just keeps comign back to life it is worse than Dwan of the Dead......
anyway just keep the presence of God at all times and you will win, with Him.
in my prayers
David
|
guitarist63
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 973 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Jun 18th, 2008 11:47 pm |
|
Thanks for your considered reply, David and for your prayers. I will pray for you. It is a battle on several fronts but perhaps I miss the main point and that is summed up in 2 Corinthians Ch.10 verse 4, about the weapons of our warfare not being of the flesh but "divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses." So perhaps the key to a swifter deliverance from this is to pray constructively (or rather destructively) against the powers of a spiritual nature that are continually waging war against God's Spirit. The flesh being still tied to that sinful legacy of Adam but released through the power of Jesus Christ to save the soul from death. A paradox yet true.
|
Current time is 02:13 am | |
|
|
|
RSS