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onewife
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Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 10:37 pm |
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| Over the 25 years of our marraige my DH has had a problem with complusive daily M. I was unaware of it untill October of this year. I was very aware of the emotional fall out and committed to go the distance no matter what... It came out in a counciling session we were at because he had become "too rough" with me sexually about 6 times over the last year and I had given the ultimatium that if it happened again I would tell someone and he would have to leave for awhile. It did happen again and that "what" was too much for me- so we are living apart for now. He swears that he stoped the compulsive M 2 years a ago (maybe?-we were having sex very frequently and in retrospect I realize its been a long time since it was making love-i was kind mentally of alone in the bed, kwim?) He also swears that he never used porn or fantasys of anyone but me (albeit a "best" version of me-Im in my 40's now and have had some kiddos) I've done a lot of reading but most things deal with porn addicts. I'm not believing much he's telling me these days...I've caught him in "small" lies about unimportant things..WHAT DO THE MEN HERE THINK?. Is there ANY chance his behavior escalated to hurting me in the sexual setting (with NO prior indications of problems of violence) -oh and a change in favorite postition. WITH OUT porn?? Is there any chance a 25 year habit doesnt require fresh fodder? I want to give the benefit of the doubt but I also want to treat him like an addict and 25 year deceiver and not believe anything too quickly...I don't want to be naive... I also have been concern that since I am not a willing partner he may look for easier targets like our children.(he was abused as a child too) He swears thats impossible-disgusting to him. But I point out that a year ago he would have said that being sexually violent with me was probably impossible and disgusting to him!...I'd really welcome your most honest feed back. Thank you men-and I wish well (wellness!) on your journey. Last edited on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 11:28 pm by truthseeker
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Seeking God
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 01:08 am |
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Dear Wife,
I believe that the wives here will be more equipped to give you support and answers that you need.
My experience with addiction is unlike how your H describe it. My addiction increases (with great speed) to a level that I can't manage anymore. If I am to recover, I need all the help I can get from God and EVERYONE around me. The lies that have kept me from being free, is that I can do it alone and I don't need anyone else; another lie is minimizing this sin, as solely lack of self control, although the root has its hold in a far deeper emotional level, I need to give my pride, anger, hatred, desperation to God in order to be free from it.
And I need to be open about anything in my heart, to men that God has given as my accountability partner.
I'm sorry that you have to come here, but I also praise God for giving you a place, to share your worry and hurt. I will pray that God will destroy the sin that threatens your marriage, and so that He will renew your husband and your marriage in Him.
SG
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onewife
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 11:21 pm |
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| perhaps that is true-although it is not so much support as feedback I am looking for and I truely appreciate your response..I thought perhaps my question was too blunt or offensive in some other way when it did not recieve any response, so thank you.
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Sat Jan 12th, 2008 08:30 am |
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Sexually immoral behavior is often escalated over time. As a person finds themselves trapped in sexual sin, they begin to loose their belief that they are any good at all combined with a numbing of the conscience which cannot be avoided. To face the horrific truth of their sins in almost unbearable, so the conscience becomes callous to certain things.
How deep one falls depends on how deep their love of the fires of lust is. Many discover either early on or later in their sin, that the fires of lust burn hotter with successive descents into deeper perversion. The more perverse they behave, the hotter the flames inside get. Thus the darker the mind becomes, the more the lust burns with greater intensity. It is often the fuel for greater intensity in the experience that is sought after. The fuel becomes filthier, more degrading, more perverse. And as the flames get hotter, the attraction can become greater.
This horrible slide into hell can be without stopping. It is the scenario of Romans 1 and is so prevalent in our society today - even sad to say amongst the churches. Sometimes the person is awakened by the shock of their own behavior. Sometimes the fires become so intense within their body that they become frightened that they might never go out. The truth is, they never will unless a complete turn around and repentence is found under the mercy of God. With Christians is is very difficult because it is as if we are crucifying the Lord afresh. It is very, very difficult to see the true state of our beings - in these cases - because the reality of our state is so painful to the soul. The shame and remorse can be so overwhelming that the soul chooses to remain in the dark place rather the face the full light.
Needless to say, a soul in this condition is often lying to themselves to protect themselves from the pain of the truth. So it is really no surprise that they might lie and lie for years to those around them. But we must pray for such souls - because the pain of staying in their sins will be eternal unless they repent and turn from their love of the horrible fires of lust. What most do not realize, is that these fires of lust are the same fires that light the fires of hell. When their soul is in love with these fires of lust - it is drawn downward toward the very flames of hell and can thus find itself in a spiral to the bottomless.
Thank God again and again and again that His mercies endure forever and that the worst sinner can yet call upon the Lord in true and sincere desire for a clean heart and a right spirit. The Blood of Jesus is powerful unto the salvation of souls. But the soul must really mean it. You cannot love the pleasures of lust and yet hope to be free. You might hope to be free from the love of the pleasure - but this is what must be asked for: to stop loving the pleasures that lust brings - to stop loving the lust itself. The only way I know that you can stop loving the pleasure of lust - is to see the lust for the horrid, criminal, damning thing that it is. This is not a set of words or bible verses (even though it can be found there) - but a real internal vision of the crimes being committed by the soul and the death worthiness of the crimes. Then a most healthy and protecting hatred of the sin will emerge within the soul and be as a flaming sword of fire protecting the Tree of Life - a soul free of these terrible sins in union with Christ.
It takes time to come to this point - where real freedom can be accepted. But it is of eternal importance that souls cry out to God for deliverance from the bondage of perpetual sin. To be delivered of the wrongful attraction to the flames of lust in the body. To be given a will that is not seeking to find loopholes and ways around and excuses and reliance on forgiveness so that it can go back and indulge and indulge in the very sins that put nail holes in the hands of our Savior, burning lashes of a whip on His back, and deep punctures into the brow of His innocent head. We need to see exactly what our sins are doing to God, let alone our spouses, families and most of all ourselves.
This is the truth that will make you free. The light that makes manifest the deeds of evil. This Light of Christ will burn the very root of sin out of one's soul, but they must come to the Light. Then when the sin is gone, a wonderful Life in the Light can be built - a Life built upon the Rock of Christ. This does not mean we'll be utterly perfect or not struggle with the faults and failures of human nature - but it does mean that the deplorable, ugly, habitual sins of the flesh are eliminated. We are told many times to flee fornication and there is a reason. The flames of lust are of the bottomless. The Love of God is of the eternal heights.
Which do we love?
A hatred and repulsion from the flames of lust is a most wonderful gift from God. He hates and finds the flames of lust utterly repulsive to His nature. We too can have this gift if we sincerly desire it. But you can't get it if you sincerely desire to keep a little piece of the love of lust somewhere in your back pocket. A little desire hidden away where you can bring it out later and sin and then run back to God saying: "please take it away." When we do this we don't really mean it - we still have a part of our heart that likes the sin. We should ask God to have absolutely no liking, no desire for this sin: this is the clean heart that so many talk about. A clean heart means that you like and like to choose clean things. That you delight in making choices for purity. It is a clean and upright will. This is much more than a clean slate or a clear conscience - it is our very desire purified - so that we no longer desire wrong things. But doesn't it make you wonder how you can have no desire, no liking of this sin if you do not see it as the utterly horrible thing that it is and how utterly horrible you make yourself for choosing it?
Why do we not understand why Christ had to die for us? Why do we not see how our sins are crimes against God and so abhorrent that we should run the other way from them - they are deadly and killed the Son of God.
Instead of saying: "Don't tell me this stuff - God is love." Why don't we say, "God, have mercy on me a wretched sinner and throw ourselves at His feet?" Yes, God is Love - and that goodness of God that Love is leads to repentance.
I hope this helps put in perspective what is going on with your husband.
I speak as one of the lowliest sinners whom God has saved from these terrible flames. I was a reprobate and unable to do that which was right. God brought me to true and deep repentance and I have been free from these awful sins for somewhere around six years. Free - not in recovery - past recovery - free by the Grace of Jesus Christ.
It is His Grace ministered to us that brings freedom. Are we willing to accept what Grace has to offer? Even if the Grace administrered is painful at the moment - sharper than a two-edged sword? The Word of God will slay the flesh if we let it. This is why I speak it again and again. The Word of God will really help you if you accept all of it. The harsh conviction first, then the soothing Love. Sin dead first, then the Life Everlasting. You cannot be made happy and joyous by the Word and live in habitual sin. Habitual sin makes one miserable. We can let it be slain by the Word of God - it is a good pain - much less painful than separation from God.
Wilderness Voice
Last edited on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 08:38 am by Wilderness Voice
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jjules
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 11:53 pm |
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Over the 25 years of our marraige my DH has had a problem with complusive daily M. I was unaware of it untill October of this year. I was very aware of the emotional fall out and committed to go the distance no matter what... It came out in a counciling session we were at because he had become "too rough" with me sexually about 6 times over the last year and I had given the ultimatium that if it happened again I would tell someone and he would have to leave for awhile. It did happen again and that "what" was too much for me- so we are living apart for now. He swears that he stoped the compulsive M 2 years a ago (maybe?-we were having sex very frequently and in retrospect I realize its been a long time since it was making love-i was kind mentally of alone in the bed, kwim?) He also swears that he never used porn or fantasys of anyone but me (albeit a "best" version of me-Im in my 40's now and have had some kiddos) I've done a lot of reading but most things deal with porn addicts. I'm not believing much he's telling me these days...I've caught him in "small" lies about unimportant things..WHAT DO THE MEN HERE THINK?.
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REPLY
i am a wife of an addict, but i can only share my experience of course the scope of individual behaviours would be so vast that noone could say for sure, iykwim? . my husband and i have been together for going on 14 yrs. married 6 yrs. when he was confronted with porn or the offense that masturbation was to me - it usually resulted in an angry exchange where he lied abt the extent, made promises to me to deflect the heat and confuse things so as to cloud the real issues. usually i copped the blame.
at this point he was still protecting 'it'.
during this year just gone, i began to realise it was a much bigger problem in his life than i ever beleived. when he confessed to me, the details he told started just scratching the surface. he gave me the amounts he could handle telling me first, or be able to justify with things i 'did to him' revenge style .... and the things he thought i could handle without leaving him and taking our kids. then more then more then more. i always knew there was more since the problems had been there most of his life and majority of our relationship. he says he had periods of sobriety with what he calls 'self control' before he finally realised his need to submit it to God..and let God help him.
Anyway, addicts are self centred, selfish and will LIE LIE LIE in order to protect and preserve their addiction. until they are ready to be found out that is - they can consciously or subconsciously (my husband began to leave clues) just before he confessed. prior to that, i swear he couldve taken this issue to the grave with him. but it had to have light shed on it, Gods glorious light that brings liberty, for him to start healing.
i relate to what you are saying abt the style of sexual contact changing, the feeling of being in the relationship on your own, affectionless. i have commented that i was married to myself building an empty home. the weight of his sinful lifestyle made him sleep constantly and have heartburn and carry on like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders, yet infact he didnt participate in life. took on no responsibility for anything. that disconnection with you emotionally is how they enable the habits from what i can see. another thing is... when he is with you sexually there is a good chance he isnt using fantasy or porn images at that moment. its what is fed into their hearts and minds during extensive porn viewing sessions - zillions of images of other women and men doing all sorts of things that create a perverse idea of what coming together intimately because of LOVE should be abt. The shift in attitude from making love to just getting his physical release turns into the most selfish sex - where he doesnt care too much for you or your satisfaction. They become awful awful lovers because there isnt love in them. I dont know abt your situation with your H, but my H says M on its own is boring and is fuelled by fantasy- porn is usually readily available to men with computers.
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Is there ANY chance his behavior escalated to hurting me in the sexual setting (with NO prior indications of problems of violence) -oh and a change in favorite postition. WITH OUT porn?? Is there any chance a 25 year habit doesnt require fresh fodder? I want to give the benefit of the doubt but I also want to treat him like an addict and 25 year deceiver and not believe anything too quickly...I don't want to be naive... I also have been concern that since I am not a willing partner he may look for easier targets like our children.(he was abused as a child too) He swears thats impossible-disgusting to him. But I point out that a year ago he would have said that being sexually violent with me was probably impossible and disgusting to him!...I'd really welcome your most honest feed back. Thank you men-and I wish well (wellness!) on your journey.
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REPLY
i will just add - i beleived his addiction to be pornography and M. it turned out that he had visited prostitutes regularly, massage parlours and at a cross roads on his journey into lust, had the flames fanned sufficiently to look into the swingers lifestyle. dont beleive all he tells you ..i would seek God and keep praying according to his word 'there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed !'
i prayed for you both xx.
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onewife
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 10:34 pm |
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jjules thank you for praying and for your reply. At this point I am pretty much assuming there is more to this drama than I know and am hopeful that I will be told it honestly, asap, by my husband- not stumble upon it, or have it ooze out bit by bit over a long time. I am choosing to focus on the "addict" part of his behavior and am not really able to trust anything I can't verify. It is very sad isn't it--to have to face the fact that either your "guts/ instincts" are wrong wrong wrong or your husband of 25 years is lie-ing to your face. Either way your world feels very unsafe.
You said ' They become awful awful lovers because there isnt love in them'. That was SO eye opening for me!! THANK YOU!- I actually remember thinking -(during sex) has he always been this bad at it?! Now I know why! Oh well! Of course I thought I just wasn't so motivating anymore AND because he was done in 2 minutes and it took me longer (cause I wasn't practising for a quick finish all the time) I always felt -and spoke- the "problem" as mine- he did NOT correct my mistaken view of the situation.
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