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bigj714
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Posted: Sun Oct 14th, 2007 05:56 pm |
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i understand that you want me to see God correctly....but that doesnt answer the question i posed.
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Seeking God
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 02:38 am |
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Dear J714,
Throughout the centuries, men often question God about Salvation. It has been and are the main motivation for most people to seek God, and have a religion, even for moslems, hindoos, buddhist, and Christians.
Now, to answer your question, I want to share you some verses that God used to help me, these are from Mat 19:16-30
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 18"Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[a] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'" 20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?" 21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." 27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?" 28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[c] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first. Mat 19:16-30
Now, I don't have many time, so I will be brief, do have a personal deep bible on these verses, and you will be greatly encouraged. As you can see this man is not an adulterer (which made him better than us...) but then notice this, THAT IS NOT IT,
When that young man said "All these I have kept, what do I still lack?" , Jesus DO NOT answer, "Oh yeah? you haven't masturbated? well, that's GREAT! then you will have eternal life!" nor He DO NOT answer,"NO whoring? NO murder? NO stealing? well, you are then better than most guys, so I think I will let you just have eternal life..."
INSTEAD HE ANSWERS
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
That man went away sad, because he thought the cost of following Christ (which for him includes his material wealth) is too great.
J714, Christ also wants you to follow him, it's not about being good enough for salvation, you will NEVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT,
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" 26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
WITH GOD...
YOU NEED TO BE WITH GOD...
YOU NEED TO FOLLOW HIM...
If you read the whole passage of Ephesians 5, you will read these passages in a whole different point now...
Ephesians 5
1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. 3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them. 8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." 15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
You will see that Eph 5 is actually about FOLLOWING CHRIST, being His Children, about living in Him, and Him in us. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT ABOUT RULING OUT PEOPLE! Christ came to this world to save sinners... the Church is made of the sick... and He healed them.
So, J714, come to Him, follow Him...
This is what He promised you,
"I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[c] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
PS:
I want you to read more about how you see Christ, because you need to know WHO you follow, right?
Because salvation lies in His hands, not on your power... You can't be good enough for salvation... no man can.... including me... but with God... You can.
Last edited on Mon Oct 15th, 2007 02:39 am by Seeking God
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bigj714
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 02:53 am |
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i can see your interepration...but ive heard chuck smith interpret it and other preachers , say that it means if your involved in sexual impurity, such as an unbroken pattern, you have no inheritance in God....dont let anybody decieve you with empy words(dont let anybody tell you its a big deal). i dont know how to take this differently.
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Seeking God
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 12:39 pm |
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Hi, J714, I'm back. Just played Ping-pong with my friends.
First, I am grateful to God, because of His work in your heart. I believe that God is working through your hunger for the Word regarding salvation. Be thankful to God J714! God is working in You. You have been blessed through the books that you've read, and through sermons you hear.
That is true J714.
UNREPENTANT men do not deserve Kingdom of God.
I will pray to God for you
"Dear Lord, Help us, help me, help BigJ714. He hunger for You Lord. Create in Him a pure heart, Help him see your way, Let Your Spirit change Him, Give him Your Sorrow, Let him repent his ways. We will study the Word together again Lord, do, Teach Us, You have the power, we cannot change ourselves, no matter what we do, we cannot save ourselves, so save us Lord. Have mercy on us"
Second, You need Face to Face Counselling. You need someone, You are created to be united in a Church, You are created to be loved by a REAL PERSON, not just some words. I pray so you can find someone you can trust to open up. As David have Jonathan, Timothy have Paul, Paul have Barnabas, I pray so You will find your bestfriend.
Third, There are MANY interpretations about bible.
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. Acts 17:11
You need to examine the Word, to see if what the sermons you hear is true. Remember, there is only ONE GOD, ONE BIBLE, ONE SPIRIT, ONE TRUTH. God's Truth, and only He can give you the truth.
Fourth, There is NO UNREPENTANT DISCIPLES in the bible. There are several religious good, law abiding, UNREPENTANT people in the bible, and they are called the Pharisees and Law Teachers. I will give you some very strange idioms for you; Rebellious Servants, Religious Infidel, Holy Idolater, Loving Murderer, Honest Liar, sounds strange isn't it? How about Masturbating Saints? Adulterous Faithful Husband? disgusting isn't it?
You have to choose your master
24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. Mat 6:24
If you kept your habitual sins, You have idolized your sins. If it were sexual, then you are worshipping your phallus.
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Mat 5:27-30.
If you have habitual sins, you simply need to repent. DO EVERYTHING THAT IT TAKES TO REPENT, PLUCK OUT, CUT OFF! This is very serious, Are you willing to do anything to repent? Are you willing to open up? Are you willing to find Godly men in your neighbourhood? Are you willing to join a Bible based Church? Are you willing to be honest, vulnerable, exposed, in your Church? Are you willing to seek Him Whole heartedly? Are you willing to let Holy Spirit do His work in You? Are you willing to give up doing your way, and Let God do His way, and You to OBEY EVERYTHING He wants you to do?
11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Eph 5:11-14
I hope these help you J714.
Know this, I am also a sinner. 2 months ago, I've seen porn. I am a worthless good- for- nothing christian. But, God, have freed me from masturbating for 2 months. I have to share you, the Joy, the Dignity that He restored, the Pleasure... is just too good to be told. Follow Him J714, and you will find satisfaction, you will be reaaaaly thankful for Him. Seek Him, wholeheartedly.
Last edited on Mon Oct 15th, 2007 12:44 pm by Seeking God
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bigj714
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 03:42 pm |
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its funny, ive heard alot of studies on passages like eph5:5 1cor6:9 and the interpretations are usually in two camps. one says that those people "practicing sin" are people who are completely defiant and sinning willfully without remorse. Than there is the other camp thats says you fall under those condemnations if you are involved , say in sexual impurity on any repeated, or unbroken pattern of sin. so if I try to make myself not fall into that condemnation, doesnt that make me try to be justified by my own efforts?, making grace of no effect?
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Seeking God
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 04:44 pm |
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Dear J714,
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Titus 2:11-14
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23.
On the above verses, you will see that it was actually GRACE that teaches you to say no to ungodliness, and worldly passions. J714, only His Grace will enable you to stop sinning (which in our case, masturbating and fornication).
I was free, and it was only by His grace. When I repent, I can do so because of His work in me. I need Godly Sorrow, which only He can give. Pray, ask, beg, plead for Repentance, Pray for His Grace, Pray for Holy Spirit to change you Inside Out.
Grace DO NOT meant for you to dwell in sin. It was not some coupon for the penalty of sin. The wages of sin is death, and what Grace do... is teaches you to stop sinning.
Ask for His grace.
I will share you another verse on this.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a] 11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:8-16 God's patience, is meant for us to repent.
It was never a discount card for sin.
When Christ died on the cross, His blood shed, His body beaten to pulp. He done it, to pay for your sin, so you can have a chance, so you can be reconciled, so the GRACE of the Lord can flow to sinners like us, and the only way... is Him. Christ.
There are many teaching on bible out there. But remember, that the focus of the Bible is Jesus Christ. Now, this may sound crazy. But Christ is the truth.. personified. If you are curious about the truth, look to Him, seek Him.
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:6-7
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:14-18 I hope these helps.
Keep seeking for Him J714
Last edited on Mon Oct 15th, 2007 04:48 pm by Seeking God
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Paulos
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Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 11:58 pm |
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Bigj714,
Any sin, no matter how large or small, will keep a person out of heaven if one refuses to repent of it.
Assuming masturbation is a sin (because it violates the interpersonal nature of sexuality as demanded by Genesis 1:27; 2:24), it will be included in the warning given in Ephesians 5:5.
However God knows how we men struggle with repetition of sexual acts. Jesus said we should forgive one another "seventy times seven" (or "seventy-seven times"--the translation doesn't matter, as it's a figure for unlimited times; Matthew 18:21-22). He also said we should forgive our brother "seven times in the day" (Luke 17:4). God himself will not forgive less. Another verse says God's grace expands to cover any amount of sin (Roman 5:20).
These verses are not a license to sin. But they do promise that God can offer all the forgiveness we need while we "learn what is pleasing to him" (Ephesians 5:10).
I've been wrestling to overcome masturbation for 37 years. Every time I fall I repent, get up, and take another run at chastity, praying that my repentance will be blessed and be lasting. Because I know God hasn't given up on me, I haven't given up on myself.
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bigj714
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Posted: Tue Oct 16th, 2007 12:07 am |
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nice paulos...thanks.........and it does say if anyone sins we have an advocate with father.........not, ok you went too far, im done with you.......praise Jesus!
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Paulos
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Posted: Tue Oct 16th, 2007 02:48 pm |
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Bigj714,
I see you asked a question above about justification that still needs an answer. Though there's a sense in which we're already justified, since it's the perfect righteousness of Christ that God credits to our empty faith, there's also a sense in which our full salvation lies in the future: "Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God" (Romans 5:9). And with our final salvation in view, Paul exhorts us: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). Precisely because we're assured of our righteous standing in Christ, we're commanded to practice righteousness existentially, undergirded by the grace of God that precedes, accompanies, and completes all our own efforts. C. F. D. Moule, a British New Testament scholar, describes the Christian task as one of "relaxed strenuousness": relaxed, because Christ has done righteousness for us; strenuous, because there remains a path to traverse. Augustine put it this way: "Man's righteousness must be attributed to the operation of God, although not taking place without man's will" (On the Spirit and the Letter 7 [v]). Again: "Grace cures the will whereby righteousness is freely loved" (52 [xxx]). Calvin: "We are justified not without works yet not through works" (Institutes of the Christian Religion iii 16.1).
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Paulos
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 10:45 pm |
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As I observed in earlier posts on this thread, the issue of how we should view masturbation ethically is widely debated among evangelical Christians in western Europe and America today, and has been an Achilles' heel in my own long struggle to surmount it from the age of about 15 into my 50s. Therefore my intense search for a well-rounded biblical view of sexuality, within which to arrive at a clear theological perspective on masturbation, continues. Another set of verses having implications that appear to count heavily against the practice of solo sex, besides those in the creation accounts that highlight the complementarity of male and female (Genesis 1:27 and 2:24), is found in the Song of Solomon. That book of the Bible is a poetic description of the positive delights of erotic love, redolent with near-oriental spice and imagery. One group of verses enjoins persons not to stimulate the sexual impulse before or outside of the proper context of marriage determined by God: "I adjure you ... that you stir not up nor awaken love until it please" (2:7; 3:5; 8:4). Another group of verses, spoken by the female figure in the poems, gives beautiful expression to the interpersonal co-ownership of spouses that God intends sexuality to symbolize: "My beloved is mine, and I am his" (2:16); "I am my beloved's, and he is mine" (6:4); "I am my beloved's, and his desire is for me" (7:10). Put those groups of verses together, and it would seem difficult to make a case for individuals stimulating themselves in solitude. Agree?
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guitarist63
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Posted: Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 11:52 pm |
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The Song of Solomon is certainly a love poem concerning a man and a woman and I agree that masturbation is ruled out.
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Paulos
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Posted: Sat Nov 3rd, 2007 02:48 am |
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Thanks for the confirmation, Guitarist63.
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