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> The Journey to Grace > Helpful Resources > Two Chapters from Mere Christianity

Two Chapters from Mere Christianity
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dennis1soil
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 Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 11:39 pm
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Especially for anyone who already owns a copy of the famous book "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis, I recommend reading chapters 5 and 6 under the section  III Christian Behavior

Here is a small excerpt:

For however important chastity (or courage, or truthfullness, or any other virtue) may be, this process trains us in habits of the soul which are more important still. It cures our illusions about ourselves and teaches us to depend upon God. We learn, on the one hand, that we cannot trust ourselves even in our best moments, and, on the other, that we need not despair even in our worst, for our failures are forgiven. The only fatal thing is to sit down content with anything less than perfection.

guitarist63
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 Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 12:34 am
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Well recommended, Dennis.  I had it but recall giving it to someone and can't remember exactly when that was.  I used to have another book by C.S. Lewis called "The Great Divorce" and although I have not read it for years, I remember a section where a man is walking along with a lizard attached to his shoulder, whispering in his ear.  Although it may not have been implicit in the text, I interpreted this part of the book as an account of someone who was tempted by lust, in particular sexual but that was probably my own projection of what I understood the passage to describe.  Later on, that man is delivered from this lizard and is transformed into another being who is able to enter paradise.  I'll have to read the book again as my memory is not reliable after over 20 years.  The main theme of the book is about the division between Heaven and Hell, as I recall.  Guitarist63

Last edited on Wed Jul 11th, 2007 10:37 pm by guitarist63

dennis1soil
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2007 06:11 pm
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Hi GuitarMan !

(Guitarist63, I hope you don't mind me calling you "GuitarMan" - I play the drums - albeit mostly without any audience, so I wouldn't mind someone calling me "DrummerMan")

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.

Yeah - I definitely know what passage you are referring to in the book, "The Great Divorce".   Interestingly, I came away with the same interpretation of that lizard. 

Now that is a really cool book (in my estimation).   I have to admit that there have been times when I have had a lot of trouble understanding how such a Graceful and Loving God can be associated with casting anyone into hell for eternity.   However, the book "The Great Divorce" has been very instrumental in keeping me from going on too many tirades attempting to lambast the goodness of God.   

In "The Great Divorce",  I got the impression C.S. Lewis might have been saying it is because God is so good - that some must be banished -- could it be that God protects those he loves (and who choose to love Him) from the pain associated with continuing to be in such close proximity with those who simply will not allow themselves to enjoy being with God? 

 Or I've also wondered if Lewis may have been attempting  to illustrate how our free choices can take us so far away from Him (He, who is the real source of all true and enduring pleasure) -- so the best way the God can communicate to us about the vast difference between the final state of me as an unbeliever, as compared with me if I will lay down my pride and accept God's will -- is through using the concepts of Heaven and Hell.

Of course, I may not have correctly said what C.S. Lewis was really trying to get across, but those are a couple of the impressions I personally remember coming away with.  Actually, come to think about it - though I have purchased the paper form of the book,  I think I have never "read" it - rather I listened to it being read. I remember hearing it as I was waiting for one of my daughters to arrive at the airport.  I carry a walkman type of CD player with me most everywhere - and also a PDA that contains a bunch of readable books - but also it can play MP3 audio books.

 For Christmas last year, both for myself and my family's use,  I purchased several audio books read by excellent readers --- both Mere Christianity, and The Great Divorce were a couple -- (btw - another really good audio book is Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton).

If anyone is interested -
Here is a link to where The Great Divorce audio book may be purchased:

http://www.homeschoolingsupply.com/zondervan/christian-literature-z-0060572957.htm

GuitarMan -- I appreciate you bringing up that book -- now I'm all stoked to go to listen to it again -- especially the part about that lizard !!!

-Dennis

guitarist63
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 Posted: Sat Jul 14th, 2007 06:52 pm
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Thanks Dennis (Drummerman) and am really pleased with your answer.  You've got a good brain.  I'll have to go back and read C.S. Lewis's books again.  Audio stuff is no good for me - I have Asperger syndrome - so the printed word is always the most perfect medium for me.   Even that when I read it is problematic.  I have go over the same passage several times before comprehension strikes.  I don't mind you calling me Guitarman if you like.   Kind regards Guitarist63

Last edited on Sun Jul 15th, 2007 08:55 am by guitarist63

dennis1soil
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 02:37 am
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Guitarman, 

For some reason I didn't realize you had made that last post.   Thanks for your kind words.

I have still been reading more from Mere Christianty and I'd like to share some of the things in regard to contrasting the urge for sex with the natural urge for food (I've heard some people comparing the two as a way to make some excuses).

In an effort to quote as little as possible while still hoping to communicate Lewis' point - I have unfortunately needed to remove even pretty sizable chunks of several paragraphs, however I hope you folks will still "get the picture" :  (Of course I suggest getting your hands on the whole book if this sparks your desire to read more).
Chastity is the most unpopular of the Christian virtues. There is no getting away from it: the old Christian rule is, "Either marriage, with complete faithfulness to your partner, or else total abstinence." Now this is so difficult and so contrary to our instincts, that obviously either Christianity is wrong or our sexual instinct, as it now is, has gone wrong. One or the other. Of course, being a Christian, I think it is the instinct which has gone wrong.
...

 Or take it another way. You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act -- that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you came to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? And would not anyone who had grown up in a different world think there was something equally queer about the state of the sex instinct amount us?
 ...

Here is a third point. You find very few people who want to eat things that really are not food or to do other things with food instead of eating it. In other words, perversions of the food appetite are rare. But perversions of the sex instinct are numerous, hard to cure, and frightful. I am sorry to have to go into all these details, but I must. The reason why I must is that you and I, for the last twenty years, have been fed all day long on good solid lies about sex. We have been told, till one is sick of hearing it, that sexual desire is in the same state as any of our other natural desires
...

... Modern people are always saying, "Sex is nothing to be ashamed of." They may mean two things. They may mean "There is nothing to be ashamed of in the fact that the human race reproduces itself in a certain way, nor in the fact it gives pleasure." If they mean that, they are right. Christianity says the same. It is not the thing, nor the pleasure that is the trouble.

The old Christian teachers said that if man had never fallen, sexual pleasure, instead of being less than it is now, would actually have been greater. ... Christianity is almost the only one of the great religions which thoroughly approves of the body -- which believes that matter is good, that God Himself once took on a human body, that some kind of body is going to be given to us in Heaven and is going to be an essential part of our happiness, or beauty, and our energy.

Christianity has glorified marriage more than any other religion: and nearly all the greatest love poetry in the world has been produced by Christians. If anyone says that sex, in itself, is bad, Christianity contradicts him at once. But of course, when people say, "Sex is nothing to be ashamed of", they may mean "the state into which the sexual instinct has now got is nothing to be ashamed of."

If they mean that, I think they are wrong. I think it is everything to be ashamed of. There is nothing to be ashamed of in enjoying your food: there would be everything to be ashamed of if half the world made food the main interest of their lives and spent their time looking at pictures of food and dribbling and smacking their lips. ....

There are people who want to keep our sex instinct inflamed in order to make money out of us. Because, of course, a man with an obsession is a man who has very little sales-resistance. ...

Before we can be cured we must want to be cured. Those who really wish for help will get it; but for many modern people even the wish is difficult. It is easy to think that we want something when we do not really want it. A famous Christian long ago told us that when he was a young man he prayed constantly for chastity; but years later he realized that while his lips had been saying, "Oh Lord make me chaste," his heart had been secretly adding, "But please don't do it just yet." ...
(The above was written by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity - in Book III Christian Behavior, chapter 5. Sexual Morality  -- published by HarperCollins --- note I removed things where you see '...')

guitarist63
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 07:43 pm
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Yes Dennis, (Drummerman) C.S. Lewis is an intelligent writer on the subject although I see a flaw in the analogy where he speaks about eating to excess.  Obviously doing sex to excess or even doing it moderately would both be wrong outside of Christian matrimony.  It could also be argued that doing it to excess in marriage might be considered sinful.   Whereas eating food moderately would not be sinful, unless of course our minds were full of absurd idolatrous notions about what we eat.  The sin would then not be in the moderate eating of food but in the corrupt thoughts that might be generated by that.  For example, a glutton who eats moderately as a means of overcoming the gluttony might find himself in a fantasy world where he is eating all he could wish for without limits.  Guitarist63 (Guitarman)

Last edited on Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 11:38 pm by guitarist63

dennis1soil
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 Posted: Thu Aug 2nd, 2007 09:07 pm
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...

What we call "being in love" is a glorious state, and, in several ways, good for us. It helps to make us generous and courageous, it opens our eyes not only to the beauty of the beloved but to all beauty, and it subordinates (especially at first) our merely animal sexuality; in that sense, love is the great conqueror of lust.

No one in his senses would deny that being in love is far better than either common sensuality or cold self-centredness. But, as I said before, "the most dangerous thing you can do is to take any one impulse of our own nature and set it up as the thing you ought to follow at all costs." Being in love is a good thing, but it is not the best thing. There are many things below it, but there are also things above it. You cannot make it the basis of a whole life.

 It is a noble feeling, but it is still a feeling. Now no feeling can be relied on to last in its full intensity, or even to last at all. Knowledge can last, principles can last, habits can last; but feelings come and go. And in fact, whatever people say, the state called "being in love" usually does not last.

If the old fairytale ending "They lived happily ever after" is taken to mean "They felt for the next fifty years exactly as they felt the day before they were married," then it says what probably never was nor ever could be true, and would be highly undesirable if it were. Who could bear to live in that excitement for even five years? What would become of your work, your appetite, your sleep, your friendships? But, of course, ceasing to be "in love" need not mean ceasing to love. Love in this second sense—love as distinct from "being in love" is not merely a feeling.

It is a deep unity, maintained by the will and deliberately strengthened by habit; reinforced by (in Christian marriages) the grace which both parents ask, and receive, from God. They can have this love for each other even at those moments when they do not like each other; as you love yourself even when you do not like yourself. They can retain this love even when each would easily, if they allowed themselves, be "in love" with someone else. "Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. It is on this love that the engine of marriage is run: being in love was the explosion that started it.

...
( The above was written by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity - in Book III Christian Behavior, chapter 6. Christian Marriage  -- published by HarperCollins )

-Dennis


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