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Unearthed
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 09:08 pm |
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My husband and I own a jewelry store. Mostly women come in, and too many start up personal conversation...all the while they are wearing provocative clothing and twinkling their eyes and altering their tone of voice to get him to give them a better deal. They dont do that with me, yet I sell as well as he does. They end up coming back often to get deals and so he gets to know them even better each time. He sometimes makes the mistake of talking about one of them in the evening and I get hurt, mad and insecure because I am asking myself why is he even thinking of HER???
He of course, gets flattered because he cant tell the difference between what they are doing and what they are really after. However, part of the problem is that a decade ago, one of these women types actually did end up sleeping with him, so maybe that memory helps to keep this ego thrill alive.
How can my husband be expected to "bounce" the eyes when he has to interact with them for so long...even when he tries hard to just talk jewelry, they keep drawing him back into personal conversation. He purchased thousands worth of diamonds from a female (attractive) vendor several months ago just because she flattered him for over two hours. I finally showed up and did what would have taken him 30 min. to decide (if they had kept the conversation down to just diamonds). I asked her privately to not return to our store unless I call for her because of "my" insecurity problem and also that my husband has a hard time saying no when we dont need anything. He was very apologetic to me, but only after a big nasty argument ensued that evening. We could not afford those diamonds, and never sold a single one of them even over Christmas. That was quite a price to pay for a ego boost.
He finds attractiveness in so many women, especially those who are both beautiful and classy looking. I dont know how to deal with the insecurity this has caused in me because I am neither beautiful or classy...even if I were, I still see what is going on.
I have asked him about ten times "WHY" does he have this struggle even though he gets so much sex and just about anyway he wants it???? What is so important about the flattery and female form of other women that he is able to risk ruining our family over it? Why did he marry me or anyone at all, is he just using me as the UTILITY wife while enjoying other women's abilityto give him the emotional highs? I never get an answer.
I am having a hard time with this everyother day or so. Are there any resources that are out there that can help a wife in this position to minimize the pain? The book I am referring to left me cold. They minimized the pain and torment we wives go through as just a problem our husbands have, almost like brushing us aside with a "there there now...just be a good listener and lover to him and everything will get better" while we are doing a life threatening bleed internally. They also imply that women dont know what they are doing when the dress and act like that. THEY DO, that's why they do it...for their own ego. Any suggestions for better coping strategies would be helpful?
Thanks
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Suzi
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 09:50 pm |
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Unearthed,
Wow.. Thanks for posting that. It IS a problem. And too often others just pooh pooh us. You have no idea how many times I get the feeling that people think, "Well, if you just take care of him, you won't have any problems"... NOT!!!
I will be turning 60 his year, and the pool of beauties younger than me just continues to grow and grow. The way I see it, my H MUST be engaged in defensive boundaries when he is dealing with other women. We have had this discussion, too many times for me!
But I just reached a point where I told him, as much as you don't understand MY point of view, I cannot live with flirting, gushing, hugging, carelessly intimate interactions between you and other women, I don't care how INNOCENT it is to you.
I don't want to be his mother... his conscience... or his chaperone!!!
It's something HE has to take ownership over, and thankfully, he has made some awesome strides.
I have started to read the book on Boundaries in Marriage by Dr Cloud and Dr Townsend, and I think it's going to be a good book for us. There is also a workbook I ordered.
http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Marriage-Dr-Henry-Cloud/dp/0310243149/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9162877-2207316?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177703042&sr=8-1
If in general he is cultivating intimate friendships, the book by the late Dr Shirley Glass "Not Just Friends" is a good one in showing the potential danger of intimate friendships with the opposite sex. It is a great (non-Chistian) book, but thick! LOL!
I don't know if this helps, but as a wife, it is so disrespectful when my H falls for the "strange woman" attitude. The lure... the flirt... the sexual tension. I just wish they could sometimes see just how gullible they are! LOL!
I am right there with you!
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2007 11:30 pm |
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I'm not sure that this book is especially intended for women, though it would have been nice if the authors
had endeavored to enlighten their male readers to the depths of pain that their wives experience.
I'm not sure that all women understand the effect of their clothing choices on men, though those who add
the eyes and voice certainly do. Some younger girls, I think, naively follow "fashion" trends, understanding
only later that male responses differ vastly from female's. I never determined whether she was serious, or
just trying to get her way, but when our daughter was in high-school and we attempted to communicate
what message young men would read from her atire, we were condescendingly told that boys of her
generation understood that it is what a woman says, not what she wears, that matters. We, of course, did
not buy it, but perhaps that may be the mind set of some young women.
Regardless of the women's motives, it is your husband who is responsible for what he does with his eyes
and mind. I gather that it is not practical for you to be at the store during all of its open hours. Everyone has a face. That is where he needs to keep his eyes. I presume he wears his wedding ring, though I realize that is not a barrier to many. Does he play any music at the store? How about some praise and worship music, even if it is instrumental. Perhaps that would keep his mind a little more on things spiritual. Is it commonplace and/or necessary to haggle over prices? He could prominently post a store policy that states that all items are priced as marked, no exceptions. Ok, this one is reaching, but if he has a cell phone in his pocket, and could unobtrusively hit a programmed button to call the store, he could excuse himself, put the call on
hold, and indicate the need to conclude the transaction.
Does he ever tell you that you are attractive? Does he have any very close male friends? What
insecurity/void is HE trying to fill? What was his relationship like with his parents? Is he willing to go to
counselling, together and/or separately to work on these insecurities?
I hope this does not seem judgmental, but here are some personal opinions you can take or leave. Work,
even if one works with one's wife, is not an appropriate venue for satisfaction. Whatever form it takes, it
should be an intimate time of unity, not just mutual itch-scratching, lube, etc. It is also my understanding
that having lights on forces him to look you in the eyes, making it more difficult to fantasize, though I realize
that there are emotional barriers for you in that regard at the moment. Sex is not for recreation or
entertainment. It is what God has given us to become one flesh.
Praying more...
TruthSeeker
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Brian Angels
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 12:31 am |
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Unearthed,
I know this is a wives forum but I saw "Every Man's Battle" as the topic and thought I'd reply. Hopefully, I can say some things from a man's perspective without sounding like a "pig". 
First of all, did your husband read the book? It talks about plenty of other things besides "bouncing the eyes" and deterring thoughts. I can say this book helped save my life and opened my eyes to what I was doing, why I was doing it, and what needed to be done to stop it. Page one I began to cry because it was right there in my face, I wasn't giving my wife 100% devotion and attention. Instead of laying next to my wife at night when she went to bed I was on the computer looking at whores, giving them a lot of my attention. Boy did I repent. I feel he should read it and reread it if he must because most of the men on here who read it can say it did wonders for them. The book also has a section at the end of the chapters for wives. It's nice that you read this. I began to read my wife's book "Living With His Secret Wars" to get a deeper feel of what she was going through when I was betraying her with pornography.
As for your husband's actions, you are right, it is an ego boost. He likes the attention. I like attention. Everyone likes attention. But if it's jeopardizing your marriage and making you feel worthless, then something needs to be done. Coming from a man's point of view, the attention could be addicting. Is he goodlooking or does he have a low self-esteem? If he has a low self-esteem, the attention is probably making him feel like a god. If you feel threatened, you need to do something about it.
It's impossible to avoid contact with women. Whether they are beautiful, average, or plain ol' ugly, us men will be in contact with them everyday. It's how we act and what goes through our minds that matters.
If you are fulfilling his sexual need like you say you are, and he is still "acting out" then he has an addiction. I would have great sex with my wife and be dead tired. Sometimes I would look at porn afterwards and still need to satisfy myself. That was my addiction. 
I just thought I'd add a male's perspective. I am a saved and porn free Christian man. Other husbands can be the same. I like Trutseekers ideas as well.
Last edited on Sat Apr 28th, 2007 12:33 am by Brian Angels
____________________
Brian
The key to a successful marriage is not finding the right person, it's learning to love the person you found. - Mort Fertel
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!&q
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 02:53 am |
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i realize this comment is somewhat off topic but i just had to say i cringe when i hear all those women who are for whatever reason involved in porn referred to as whores.
are these not all souls to be reached with the gospel and as such possible redemned children of the King.
and are the men who chase after them, to the point of being out of control, are we not the whores?
just a thought
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Unearthed
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 04:35 am |
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Peter,
Did I miss something?
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 02:59 pm |
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"Instead of laying next to my wife at night when she went to bed I was on the computer looking at whores,"
that was a quote from a previous post.
"for God so loved the world, He gave his only begotten Son....."
the hard shameful fact is that all of us, men and women, are sinners whose hearts run after sin and in whom is found no good thing.
we all need a renewal of our hearts and the rebirth Christ promised.
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Steve
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 03:46 am |
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Every Man's Battle is a fantastic book and I wholeheartedly endorse the bouncing the eyes technique. It works! Regarding the matter of "women who lure," the book also covers practical strategies of how men can protect themselves from temptations to lust in such instances.
Ultimately however, choosing purity in every moment by the power of God's grace is a matter of the heart for a recovering man.
-Steve
Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 03:47 am by Steve
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gaylon
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 03:19 pm |
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Steve wrote: Every Man's Battle is a fantastic book and I wholeheartedly endorse the bouncing the eyes technique. It works! Regarding the matter of "women who lure," the book also covers practical strategies of how men can protect themselves from temptations to lust in such instances.
Ultimately however, choosing purity in every moment by the power of God's grace is a matter of the heart for a recovering man.
-Steve
For me, the "bouncing" technique has limited usefulness. For one thing, when I'm doing that, I'm avoiding addressing the issue I really need to address, which is, how am I going to think about God's daughters. If I'm busy "bouncing", for one thing, it brings continual focus to sex -- in trying to avoid something, you almost always are drawn more to it. For another, I almost have a nervous breakdown, because the slightest slip sends me into a downward spiral of sense of failure and self-loathing. If I don't obsess on the technique, but in general learn to use it so I break the habit of extended staring, it is useful. But, unless I begin changing the way I think about women in general, recognizing their nature and value as God's daughters, and remembering the sacred function of their female body in procreation, then I really haven't made much progress, and I stay in a constant state of fear that I'm going to accidentally lust after a woman. And, my wife has the same reaction to the book that one of the ladies had -- she feels it minimizes the pain that the women feel, and is overly graphic in language. It actually was a very helpful book for me, on the whole, and helped me realize my responsibility to "cleave unto" my wife only, and got me going down that path. And, though the language etc. might be offensive to women, it's a book for a man, that every man can very closely relate to...
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crucified123
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Posted: Fri May 4th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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Yes, get "Every Heart Restored: by Fred and Brenda Stoeker. You are not being unreasonable, insecure, or crazy. Your husband creates an unsafe environement by not putting up the boundaries to protect you as his wife and the marriage.
Have him read "Every Man's Battle" even if it doesn't read into your language, it has been monumental in turning men hearts back to their wives and marriages. Have him call New Life Ministries. They will talk to you to reassure you of the things that I just shared.
The book will teach your husband how to behave as a "dweeb" having to do business with women that may be attractive to him. Just get the book and insist that he read it. If he talks to New Life Ministries, then I am certain they will convince him to read it and more.
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crucified123
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Posted: Fri May 4th, 2007 10:11 pm |
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Dear Steve,
I agree with you. I am a woman, but recognized right off the book was written in the language of men who are where they are usually when first coming to terms with their problem. Too many books gloss over the reality of what's up and then men find the loopholes to keep one foot in the water so to speak. Every Man's Battle puts right out on the table and does it in a way that is able to relate to each man. There's also a book for women and their daughters, as well as young men. I would recommend that you also read Every Young Man's Battle and check out Fred Stoeker's website.
For many women, it is highly offensive. Sexual Addiction is not a nice picture all around, but I believe that even though it is viewed as pretty graphic, I firmly believe that to do otherwise would be basically minimimzing or at least enabling the reader/man to minimize their own thoughts, feelings, and behavior.
I think women are offended because it does hit so close to the place that our hearts have been severely traumatized. That's why it good for the women to get the book, "Every Heart Restored" which can be shared with their husband. It will let them know that by no means Every Man's Battle is minimizing their pain or blaming them in any way, shape, or form.
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Steve
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Posted: Fri May 4th, 2007 10:29 pm |
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Yes, I echo everything you said Crucified123. Thank you for contributing!
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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9206aaron
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 02:28 pm |
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hey i am sorry to hear that you are having this problem, i guess the only advice i could hand out to you, is try and find peace in god, ask him for peace.
i don't believe you could stop your husband from cheating if he ever wanted too, hen again if he wanted to would you stop him?! i really feel sorry for you, it soundz like this is getting yu know where. pray about this situation and if you feel like god is giving you a sign of what to do, then jus go for it, it is the most diffecult thing to do, but his way is the best.
good luck with everything, i will pray for you,
if ya wana reply my email is aaronburge@hotmail.co.uk
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crucified123
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Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 05:59 pm |
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Dear Aaron and everyone,
I just listen to a tape on James 1: 19 -end of chapter done by the pastor from the church that my H attends.
I sent an email and wanted to share it with you as well. I've bleep out the personal information, so keep that in mind.
From time to time I listen to a tape in your archives. Today, I listened to the James 1:19 tape.
The study that you did on this was one of the best I've heard next (another Pastor name and church affiliation). The fellowship that I have always considered to be my home church. I have often told H that the one great thing about (church name) is the teaching. Your teaching is no exception and gives honor to our Lord, Savior, and God.
I was thinking about some of the things you pointed out in the latter half of James. About God's Word being a mirror to us in our lives. It prompted me to think about how God also uses people to also be a mirror to our lives, as well as, how we will use people sometimes to reflect what it is that we would like to believe about our self instead.
I think that when we only allow people to reflect to us perfection, then we miss seeing and hearing those things that God is trying to tell us to get rid of in our lives. In essence, we deceive ourselves and deny our sins. That's why we will often reject the person who we have hurt, because we don't want to be convicted of our sin. We don't see it for what it is and we think in our hearts, because of the sin that lies within it, that they are condemning us instead. We don't hear or see or feel the pain that we have exacted upon their lives.
We become blind. The feelings that we get from this mirror of perfection feels too good to us, making us feel almost godlike. I think this has a lot to do with why God tells us not to lust after another person. Being that God has also made us sexual creatures, the physiological chemicals that kicks in can being extremely addicting, thus reinforcing this sense of perfection and god likeness. How much more important it is to be not just hearer of the Word, but doers as well. How critical to line all things up with God's Word.
I also think this is why many people avoid genuine intimate relationships. It's scary to have to know about who we really our. The enemy likes to use our fears in chasing and tempting us to use his soulutions, instead of God's solution. Love and sex can become so twisted and distorted. Spouse therefore, can appear to be a huge threat to the image we struggle to maintain instead of realizing the gift of love they have to bestow upon us, even in the midst of our warped view about ourselves.
In your tape, you phrased it as being "real." But when people seek after and worship the creature, they become insensitive towards the affect they have upon another human being. The more they are able to discount the person who has been harmed, the less they are willing to look into the mirror, (the gift) that God has provided in this person that has been harmed. In essence, they surround themselves with people who will not reflect what God would like that person to truly see.
In turn, they end up persecuting the very person that God has placed into their lives to have a genuine relationship with in order to grow, develop, and to experience the great Love that God has for them. They will surround themselves with people who will keep their world nice and cozy, thus they deceive themselves into thinking that the person they have hurt is the root of their problem instead.
Out of their own condemnation (the voice in their head), they will project their badness upon the person that most likely loves them and God so much that to remain quiet would be a sin in itself. People like the mirror of perfection. So much so, they will insist upon the person that they are harming to be silent unless they also are willing to reflect this mirror of perfection to them. Even to the point of utterly destroying and anniliating the heart and identity of another human being.
So, for these who seek after the mirrors of perfection their greatest enemy would "seem" be the one who loves them enough to speak up to speak the truth and to be real about the harm that is being done, don't you think? I guess this would fall in line when you were mentioning a sense of righteous indignation vs. just wanting to hear the nice things rather to deal with those things that God has permitted in one's life to mirror the things that cause us to fall short of realizing the full blessings that He wants so very much to give us.
"The wounds of a friend are far better than the kisses of the enemy (mirror of perfection).
(Pastor's name), thanks for being diligent in teaching God's Word and not giving in to so many teachings out their that would make God's Word a nice, soothing, end all for making our sins more palatable and acceptable. For this, I am grateful that H is attending your church. It still grieves my heart though that in part he also chose it due to the sin in his heart that feeds off the sisters there, however.
Yes, I pray constantly for him while he is there and even throughout the day before he arrives there. I pray for myself as well as the sisters there. I pray that all would focus exclusively upon the Lord and that each would receive what it is that God has for them and that none would be deceive in the many ways that the enemy use the things in our hearts that has yet to be overcome. I especially pray that my husband's thoughts would not be deceived into thinking that a sister there would or could be the answer to his unhappiness or displeasure towards me. I pray that he would realize that although she may represent perfection to him, it is an allusion that only feeds the sin in his heart and pushes me away from standing by his side in church and in so many other places.
Marriage is to be holy and sacred. God provides us our spouses to enable us to see ourselves as we are, but also to learn to love and to be committed to taking great care of the gifts that are only to be used within the bonds of marriage. How utterly grateful we should be in the light of the great sacrifice He has made to show us the way. By example and by His Word. We truly are without excuse.
Psalms 27
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truthseeker
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 04:06 pm |
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Hi crucified123,
Have you only attended separate churches since being separated?
TruthSeeker
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9206aaron
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 06:15 pm |
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there is something that annoys me about marriage, so here we go:
say if a person gets married to someone? but say there not even in love and have sex, is that not a sin? i mean that doesnt make sense right? surely it should only matter if you are in love?
this always gets me
thanks azz
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crucified123
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 07:26 pm |
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Dear Truthseeker,
Yes, we do attend different churches, however, I do not atten church on the level that I used to due to the traumatization that was experience by watching my H repeatedly acting out towards or with one sister after another.
In my mind, I keep thinking that what is the purpose of becoming part of a fellowhip, if that day ever should come about that we are reconciled. I think it has to do with going to 5 different churches and just as I was began get attached, I would thoroughly blown out of the waters by being quite humiliated, betrayed, and disrespected.
The church that I am attending on an ever sporadic basis is one that I had been able to counsel with the Pastor. He thoroughly understands the situation and guards my need to feel safe and protected from my H. But in the course of all of this, my H began attending services with me and introduced himself around. Of course, give the nature of the beast, I eventually asked him not to go there with me any longer. He still attends a theological base Men's study there which include this pastor and one other person. I don't mind as it is helping him to understand the Bible more and who God is in relationship His people.
I do have this feeling that my H essentially came to my church to make sure that he marked out his "property" so to speak while also exhibiting this persona that he is this wonderful caring husband that just loves me to death and is a "Man" of God. In my head, I want to scream out and tell everyone please don't be fooled and taken in by this facade. He's mean and selfish and only using you and everyone else. I guess this is the primary reason I ended telling him I wasn't ready to have him join me in church. I just couldn't be honest with people who would ask us if we were married, because my response would be: On paper, we are.
I do not participate in women groups primarly for two reasons;
1) I am hearing impaired from birth and it's extremely difficult to hear female voices.
2) In many ways, I have difficulty due to my socialization with men (being hearing impaired) and lack of socialization with women in relating with women. It's not a case of disliking women at all. It's just a case of not understanding in some ways. Do I respect women? Absolutely, but in my journey, I have had to learn to define who I am as a women even though I clearly was socialize with males. This can be problematic at times because there is a tendency for others to want me to behave myself in a stereotypical manner. Most men respect me, but some woman find me difficult until they get to know me. In my experience I think there has been an overemphasis between the genders to limit each in expressing themselves in terms other than female or male. I think sexual identity issues have a lot to do with this and as a result has created this schism and misunderstanding between the genders, including what God has purpose for us as human beings.
I do speak with a lot women. For me, it is more of learning about them and how they think, feel, and view their world. It is very interesting, but seldom do I ever feel as though I am on the stream as they are, if you will. Like, it totally baffles me when 2 women have to go to the ladies room together?????? I just don't get it.
As far as having female friends - at this time I wouldn't dare given what my H has done in the past. In my mind, I'm just not willing to nurture a relationship that just might be blown to smithering if my H decides to be too friendly with her. Sad, but this is what it is for right now.
This forum is very helpful to me as it gives me a lot of insight and also confirms and reaffirms the nightmare that I have been tossed into, in you will. It's my hope that I can also offer others encouragement and insight from my own experience.
Right now, I feel a bit abandoned and having to play my cards close to my chest with my H. Our therapist recently called to say that he has signed a teaching contract for the next 12 weeks, therefore our time slot was no longer available. Since my H has a propensity to fill his schedule up with one activity after nother, alternate times are limited. Given all the above, it turns out that we won't have another session until May 27. Can you imagine, we are going to meet on Sunday afternoons. For me, this is just another reality check of how unavailable my H makes himself and puts everything and everyone else in front of the marriage instead. I need to focus on being grateful it's possible at all to be in counseling with him without losing my mind in the process.
My own therapist also called to say that she was going to be out of town for the next weeks. So, it is important to stay connected with this forum if nothing else but to remind myself that I am a human being and that I do have a safe place to go to.
Why do you ask?
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9206aaron
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 07:34 pm |
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| i really feel for you, is there any point in being in a loveless marriage? i can't see it,, maybe its different in your position ...............
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crucified123
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 07:34 pm |
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Dear Aaron:
I don't understand what you are presenting. Would you clarify this more for me.
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9206aaron
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| Joined: | Thu Mar 1st, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 07:36 pm |
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| what do you mean? i just mean there marriage soundz like a loveless marriage, is there any point in being together?
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