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leckig
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Posted: Sat Jan 21st, 2006 09:53 pm |
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Hi folks,
maybe i am not a match to this forum, but i really like to see others people opinion and points of view. This post will probably ban me right away, but here is what I think.
Your wives are cold and sexually 'dead' for one reason only - since they were born they were told sex is bad bad bad. This is so sad, God gave as sexuality as a gift but unfortunately some people teach us that this is sin and it is forbidden. I think it is very sad and i am sorry for you.
And one more thing - a healthy woman wants almost sex as often as the men wants. This is the nature and this is how God created us and animals - this is the only way that human race exists! So, maybe you should as for professional help in this case, if a woman does not want to have sex for the rest of life, there is a problem somewhere.
Please, let me know if i am mistaken.
Greg
Last edited on Sun Jan 22nd, 2006 03:58 pm by leckig
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Billyeah
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Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2006 03:08 pm |
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I wouldn't say she was ever told that sex is bad, but she certainly has never been told it was good, much less a gift from God. I can't imagine never having seen my parents kiss, or even hug. But that is what she has seen (or not seen) her whole life. Seems crazy to me.
But we are still doing great. I have learned to put less emphasis on sex and more on other aspects of our marraige, and hopefully that will end up in her feeling more open about lovin'. If not, that's fine too, I love her just the same, and always will.
Bill
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BrokenDiva
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 08:29 am |
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This thread is quite old now but... I was a bit confused by it. the ppl here posting ( the addicts ) spend alot of time and energy saying 2 things and both of these are documented and written about in great length by both Patrick Carnes and Doug Wiess....(sex addiction experts)
#1 it has nothing to do with the spouse..how attractive they are , how often they give sex...how attentive they are ...ok ....and here there are several postings saying the opposite...men blaming or at the very least complaining that they are tempted by porn becuase of lack of release/sex......the literature tells us it is not about sex/release and or even the porn ..but the issues and dysfuntion of the addict. The porn and MB is a SYMPTOM of the dysfuntion.
#2 Taking a drug to reduce sex drive....ok come on guys ..do you expect us to believe what is written by experts and professed by addicts all over or not ...?? Again the literature tells us that it is about escape, a diversion from life and the pain or difficulty of it . Do you really think a reduced sex drive is going to change that ..?? BILLYYEAH ..if you can have sex with your wife everyday and still want porn..??
News flash ..it is NOT physical...it is NOT about needing sex....it is a symptom of a dysfuntion you have...work on that maybe and forget trying to kill a mosquito with a shotgun.......take care all
Broken Diva
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Billyeah
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 06:21 pm |
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| Ok there are a couple things I would like to point out. Yes, you are right, on both points, but you have to understand that a sex addiction isn't as black and white as you would want it to be. I know you are in pain because of what your husband has done, but you can't dig up old posts and throw them in our faces. This post is irrelivant in my life now. I have grown and moved away from my sin, by the grace of God. I don't need to be reminded of what I once was. I have put my hand to the plow and I am not looking back.
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Steve
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 07:50 pm |
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And Bill, let me just add that I have seen you grow quite a bit through your postings on this forum. Be encouraged!
Personally, I have occasionally read through old journal entries of mine when I first started my recovery and I'm sometimes amazed to see how far I've come.
-Steve
Last edited on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 06:09 am by Steve
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"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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Billyeah
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Posted: Sat Jul 8th, 2006 07:58 pm |
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| And Steve, be encouraged as well, because it is because, much of my growth I can accredit to you and your wisdom, and encouragement.
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GranolaGirl
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Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2006 04:37 am |
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leckig wrote: Hi folks,
maybe i am not a match to this forum, but i really like to see others people opinion and points of view. This post will probably ban me right away, but here is what I think.
Your wives are cold and sexually 'dead' for one reason only - since they were born they were told sex is bad bad bad. This is so sad, God gave as sexuality as a gift but unfortunately some people teach us that this is sin and it is forbidden. I think it is very sad and i am sorry for you.
And one more thing - a healthy woman wants almost sex as often as the men wants. This is the nature and this is how God created us and animals - this is the only way that human race exists! So, maybe you should as for professional help in this case, if a woman does not want to have sex for the rest of life, there is a problem somewhere.
Please, let me know if i am mistaken.
Greg
This post caught my eye and I want to respond as all. Not to Billyeah, because it is obvious of his dedication on this forum and he is truly "working through" his addiction it seems. My comment is to "Greg". He probably hasn't been back since, but maybe anyone else with this attitude could be enlightened by this perspective.
You couldn't be more wrong. I came from a very strong Catholic background. Catholic schools all the way. Hammered with what a sinner I was etc. Got pregnant young, had more children, divorced, and remarried the man I am married to now. The one who betrayed me and our family.
I loved sex. I led a *healthy* happy sex life and without too much detail lest I trigger anyone - was very satisified and satisfied my husband as well. I was not "cold"  or sexually "dead". I was imaginative, free and willing - and warm and kind and loving, and let my husband know he was desired and appreciated. What he chose to do was because he wanted more (not needed, as you insinuate - WANTED). He got tired of looking at the same woman. And of having sex with the same woman. He was selfish, narcissistic and self-gratifying. And only thinking of himself. He began ignoring me and going to his "ladies on the 'net", and ultimately refused sex with me, he was so busy with *them*.
Flashforward to the present: I am cold. I am sexually dead. Not because I think I am a sinner, (I am - as are we all), or because I have been hammered that sex is evil, bad and if we physically desire our partner it is because we are Jezebel incarnate. I am cold and sexually dead, because everytime my husband lays a hand on me now, I have a flash of him sitting at our computer while I am at work late at night, masterbating to images on the screen. While our babies sleep nearby. I know Satan puts the images there. It will be very hard work and prayer and more prayer still before I can be released from this pain. So umm....yeah. I'm cold. I'm dead sexually. But only after being emotionally traumatized by the man who swore to our Lord he would forsake me for no other.
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Elizabeth
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 04:18 pm |
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Don't go for the drugs. You don't want the other feminizing side effects from taking them.
There is a very simple, inexpensive, no-fail tried and true solution and it is this:
You have to start FLOODING YOUR MIND with the things of GOD all day every day so there will be little or no room for other troubling/tempting thoughts or urges. Here's how to do it:
Start reading and studying your Bible everyday. Start with just 15 minutes. Everybody has 15 minutes somewhere and so do you. Try to make it sometime when you are most mentally alert: the earlier in the day the better. HUMBLE yourself and pray and ask God to help you understand what you read and help you to APPLY it to your life BEFORE you start your reading it every day. Start in the book of John (after Luke). Read only what you can understand and/or absorb in that 15 minutes (for starters). Persist and don't quit. Move toward Revelation. Also read a Proverb and a Psalm everyday. These will strengthen you. MEDITATE on what you read the rest of that day. Try to memorize a verse or a concept or just go over what you read at different times throughout the day. Later, add a chapter or part of a chapter in Genesis in the Old Testament to your reading in John, Proverbs, and Psalms. Determine in your mind that you WILL understand what you read eventually with God's help because you will. God promises that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF will teach you. The first 7 days are roughest. On the 8th day, you will begin to start understanding more. Don't quit. You take the first step, God will take the rest. You will find that after a while of consistently doing this, your vision and focus will clear and your perspectives will change (for the better.) You will begin to actually look forward to reading your Bible everyday and wanting to find out more and what happens next. Those 15 minutes will have turned into 20, then 30 then 45 and maybe an hour or two because you won't be able to put it down! You will begin to hunger and thirst after righteousness. Your desires will have changed.
Once you begin on this journey with God and work on your relationship with Him, your focus WILL change and the things of this world, the flesh, and the devil will grow strangely dim. They won't weigh so heavily on you. They will fade into the background. Any unwanted urges or thoughts will diminsh and just not be the obsession or priority they once were. You will have more self-control. Your FOCUS will have changed from you and your fleshly, physical urges toward establishing a personal relationship with Jesus Christ whose love you have been missing all along. Your focus will also look more to the needs of you wife and children. When that empty place is filled in your soul by God, because only He can do it, your whole life will change and ALL your relationships will improve, especially with your wife and children. Once they witness the change in you, they will be drawn closer to you. Your wife will feel closer to you and just naturally want to become more physically intimate with you. Try it and see if it doesn't work. It won't happen overnight, but with time and persistence.
Jesus is the answer, the ONLY answer. No drug will do what God can & will do for you if you would just put it to the test. The Bible promises that if we seek Him FIRST and His righteousness, ALL the [right] things our soul longs for will be satisfied and met. Some of these things we don't even realize we are missing or need, but God, in His infinite wisdom, does.
At the same time you are doing the above, you have to RUTHLESSLY reject and keep away from all things and situations that are temptations for you and increase your unwanted urges. Purge your house, your desk, your office, your world of as much stuff that could cause you to stumble as possible. Ask God to give you the desire and the strength to do this and to show you the specifics. This is building "hedges."
Remember: Garbage in = Garbage out. God's Word in = God's ways out.
____________________
Elizabeth
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Billyeah
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Posted: Wed Jul 12th, 2006 04:58 pm |
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| Wow Elisabeth, I would have to say that is about the most constructive opening post I have seen here. I remember a Christian brother telling me the same thing. If we are focused on doing good, instead of watching out so that we don't do wrong we will be much more productive for the body of Christ. Good post.
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Steve
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Posted: Thu Jul 13th, 2006 01:15 am |
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GrnolaGirl wrote:I loved sex. I led a *healthy* happy sex life and without too much detail lest I trigger anyone - was very satisified and satisfied my husband as well. I was not "cold" or sexually "dead". I was imaginative, free and willing - and warm and kind and loving, and let my husband know he was desired and appreciated. What he chose to do was because he wanted more (not needed, as you insinuate - WANTED). He got tired of looking at the same woman. And of having sex with the same woman. He was selfish, narcissistic and self-gratifying. And only thinking of himself. He began ignoring me and going to his "ladies on the 'net", and ultimately refused sex with me, he was so busy with *them*.
Flashforward to the present: I am cold. I am sexually dead. Not because I think I am a sinner, (I am - as are we all), or because I have been hammered that sex is evil, bad and if we physically desire our partner it is because we are Jezebel incarnate. I am cold and sexually dead, because everytime my husband lays a hand on me now, I have a flash of him sitting at our computer while I am at work late at night, masterbating to images on the screen. While our babies sleep nearby. I know Satan puts the images there. It will be very hard work and prayer and more prayer still before I can be released from this pain. So umm....yeah. I'm cold. I'm dead sexually. But only after being emotionally traumatized by the man who swore to our Lord he would forsake me for no other.
Granola, I really appreciate your posting, especially the part I quoted above.
I have not thoroughly read through much of the "twists and turns" of the conversation on this thread, and it is only my desire to briefly comment on your post.
As a therapist who has worked with quite a few female partners of sex addicts, I have heard themes of your story quite often. I trust you realize how common your experience has been. Many of the women I have worked with experience that repulsion and deadness you described towards their man after all the damage is done to their hearts.
A man in recovery obviously needs to stop his sexually addictive behaviors, but it will almost always require a transformation of his heart - as seen by a true change in his attitudes, behaviors, communication habits with his wife, etc. - for real, long-term restoration to take place in a marriage. When that happens, a couple's sex life will likely reflect that process of restoration as well. However, if a man lives a life as a "dry drunk," (i.e. He's sexually sober from his addictive behavior, but his character defects go unchecked and unexamined.), generally speaking, there will still be many problems in the marriage.
Thanks again for sharing your very insightful thoughts! I welcome your comments, questions and/or reactions to my reply. 
-Steve
Last edited on Thu Jul 13th, 2006 03:26 am by Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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GranolaGirl
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Posted: Thu Jul 13th, 2006 05:52 am |
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Steve,
Thank you for your insight as well. I am not quite sure what I would have done without this forum to get information, vent and knowledge from. I literally have not one soul to talk to about this in RL. Not a one. We are a very isolated family. The children have plenty have friends,but we do not. I am in school fulltime, work fulltime, as does my husband.
The changing heart is the problem. My husband is just so "not there". Like a .....void in his head and heart. Does that make sense to you? Have you heard that before in sessisons with other couples? It's like he wants me to just be the mother. Help him raise the kids. Help him with managing his affairs etc, and that is it. He is going to be applying for a promotion at work and I offered to update his resume for him. And I thought to myself, "what am I doing...more stuff for him?". When no one helps me at all and I average 4-5hours per day of sleep. I was thinking....maybe with a new job he will be invigorated and have a new life. Want a new life with the bride I want to be to him. I believe we should always try to keep things as new as possible with our mates. Anyway..you would absolutely not believe, how my heart sunk when I realized it was not a field position, it was an office position. Which means, he will be in an office full of....women. I don't mind saying...my husband is a beautiful Latino man - very exotic looking and compliments about him are never short. I am scared. And insecure. *sigh*. I know, gotta give it to God. But I am watching.
He isn't ready to make those changes. I just have to decide how long I am going to wait. And hope he stays true from here out. And find a way not to go nuts. 
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justme
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Posted: Thu Jul 13th, 2006 10:26 pm |
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Hello Granolagirl and everyone else on this thread,
Reading your post and the others makes me want to add a few of my own observations--actually things I've learned over the past few months--most of them the hard way. As Granolagirl pointed out, when a man turns to porn or other acting out in a marriage, it isn't about whether his wife is attractive or not or whether they have sex often enough or not. My husband began his affairs very soon after our wedding and believe me I was ready, willing and able. I also struggled with thinking if I had been prettier, nicer, whatever that he wouldn't have turned to other women. Well, he had sex with a woman in her 60's and I was in my 20's at the time. He commented that he got a "sick thrill" from the illicit sex and I think that is one of the keys. A man won't get a "sick thrill" from Godly marital sex. The good news in our relationship--and I know God can do this for any married couple that will let him work in their marriage--is that God is making our sex life so wonderful that the "Godly thrill" far outweighs the sick thrills from adultery. Another reason he turned to other women for sex is that he didn't have to develop any emotional intimacy with any of them and that is what sex addicts fear--emotional intimacy. They fear it because there is, of course always a risk of rejection when we have a true relationship with our spouse and sex addicts are very afraid of rejection. I'm generalizing here--this may not be true of all addicts but seems to be for the ones I have come to know.
After saying all that, there is another point I want to make. Was I the perfect wife while my husband was Mr. Dysfunctional? Of course not. He shut me out because he was afraid of intimacy and I didn't know how to handle it, so I tried to get him to open up to me emotionally and of course this just pushed him away even further. I'm not sure what I could have done differently, especially since I didn't know he was acting out and knew nothing of sexual addiction. If I hadn't tried to get him to open up to me, he would have still had a huge problem with emotional intimacy. During all our years of marriage I felt like there was a huge wall between the two of us--well, there was--a huge wall of secrecy that my husband was trying to hide behind. I prayed for many years that God would help my husband become the Godly man I knew God wanted him to be and for years it looked like nothing was changing. I believe that God was doing all kinds of things behind the scenes, though, to get things into place so our marriage could be restored.
Sorry this post is so long, but I have one last point. Several men have mentioned that romance doesn't seem to work with their wives. I think God wants men to romance their wives, but I think it needs to be out of the right motive. By that I mean that men need to romance their wives because they know it makes their wives feel honored and special--not because the men think it will get them more sex. Another thing that honors your wife is to take time to get to know her--show an interest in her likes and dislikes, find out what her dreams and fears are, in other words let her know you want to know about her as a person, not just to use her for sex. I think we can do things out of the wrong motives and they won't have a good result. God knows our motives and if you're romancing your wife for the wrong reasons, she'll sense it, too. I would suggest asking God for ways to honor your wife and show her she is special. More than likely it will result in not only more and better sex, but a better relationship with your wife in general. Don't forget, your sexual addiction has made your wife feel extremely dishonored and anything but special, so she needs this very badly.
Just Me
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LAW
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Posted: Fri Oct 6th, 2006 08:53 pm |
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| Just what am I missing? Never married at 49. Currently reading a book called "How to get a Date Worth Keeping" By Dr Henry Cloud. Feel like that book is a personnel letter to telling me what I didn't do right when younger as to my single status. My gosh I read about the Man whose wife doesn't want to do it. Here this guy sleeps in the same bed with this women and no physical intimacy. That's torture. So another says try romancing her? He says she doesn't like that. Oh great!!!! Another says well romance her but don't give her the impression its so he'll get sex. My parents have been married for 60 years they maid marriage look so easy. Tons of their friends have been married 50+ years. I've been to many marriage seminars put on for us single Christians. They all say how tough marriage is. I think I'm beginning to understand. Just what am I missing? Also understand Jacking off isn't the answer either. I've had it with instant gratification mentality.Ok I'm listening intently. I can remember going to church camp as a teen ager listening to the Preacher advise on sex in marriage how it gets better over time. Hmm was I lied to? That dude whose wife hates sex!!!!!! And he wants to in effect CASTRATE HIM SELF!!! I bet his wife would love to cut him. Of course on the flip side of the coin,what things happened to her that were out of her control? What kind of Father did she have? Life is tough!!!. These marriage & How to find the love of your life seminars I've been too. Say Talk about everything EVERY THING. NO UN ANSWERED QUESTIONS..... I've had married people tell me I'm not missing all that much,sex is over rated. I'm going to pray hard I don't fret over my never married status. I read this I still want to be a married man. Its just I think the blinders have been removed. I can SEE!!!! While type this I felt some anger. I was able to cool my self down I was in the wrong. Their are two sides to every story.
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mj9
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Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 01:32 am |
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Law, I don't know that I'm clear on your point of view. But am I correct in thinking you're looking for a formula to finding and pleasing a woman? I can tell you, after being married 24 years, most of them unsuccessful, that neither over-generalizing or being ignorant of women will guarantee a healthy, happy relationship. True, some aspects of femininity may probably be generalized, but if God does indeed have a lady out there just for you, it will be tremendously helpful for you to understand that each person is a very unique individual, with very individual experiences and preferences. The deal is that you spend your entire life getting to know that person and serving them in love, according to their uniquenesses. When both partners do that, I think success will usually follow. God bless. mj9
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LAW
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Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 02:02 am |
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| Your point is don't pigeon hole people.I've been told that. I'm sure your right. Thanks for response.The Battle is tough.So are you still on first marriage?
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mj9
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Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 05:28 am |
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| Law, Yes, first marriage. We only recently have been able to get along and see a future worth working for. Strangely, God has used my addiction as a tool to help us be completely real with one another. It was through the process of really getting to know each other to such a deep level that we have been able to put down our guards and our pride and begin to actually work together toward something worth keeping. That is why I say that both must absolutely be committed to serving and submitting to the other's needs. I really do believe that had we not been completely real and honest, we wouldn't have been able to see each other's weaknesses and needs, and as a result, move to meet those needs, and as a result, help our marriage survive. God does desire truth in our inmost being, and Jesus said the truth would set us free. I can see that prove true, and I know it is to a great extent due to the fact that I am fortunate to have someone who believes I'm worth sticking with and working this out with. I know that isn't always the case. But love certainly does cover a multitude of sins, if we let it. And mercy is definitely better than sacrifice. Blessings, mj9
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LAW
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Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 05:56 am |
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| Could I ask a personnel question ? You say just now your getting along. Well before this realization What kind of a sex life did you have?What kind now?I'm hearing that a womens sexuality is a very complex thing. A pastor once said the Problem with marriage is it doesn't solve any problems" I lust like crazy Satan wants me to think of all the sex I'm missing.and to go out and sin with no regard for consequences?I confess to God everyday my anger towards him for not letting me marry. But he has been good to me in many others.No I'm not rich but I'm saved! Not handicapped Not a Pro sport professional
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truthseeker
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Posted: Tue Oct 17th, 2006 06:45 pm |
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Hi Law,
I don't know if this will help, but concerning my handicap I rest in the biblical perspective that "God's strength is made perfect in weakness," and that I have all of eternity to be whole. Yes, marriage, as God intended it, is a beautiful thing, but it is work. It can show us an image, through a glass darkly, of what being the bride of Christ will be, but we do not have to have had that imperfect, earthly experience in order to be fully blessed as His bride for all eternity. You may, if very healthy, have as many years of life ahead of you as you have behind, but eternity is so much longer. My suggestion would be to "seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you." Not to say that you will get married, but that focusing on being completely fulfilled by your relationship with God and His will for your life may bring someone special along in His time, once you have completely let go of the matter.
TruthSeeker
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mj9
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 09:56 pm |
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Last edited on Thu Oct 19th, 2006 09:58 pm by mj9
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mj9
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 09:56 pm |
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Law, I've been mulling your question over for a few days, not quite sure how to respond appropriately and discreetly. Hmm... I think it naturally follows that most people's quality of their core relationship absolutely affects their physical intimacy. That's a given.
Women are more attuned to the quality of the actual relationship then are men, typically, and as a result, the health of the core will affect their desire to be physically intimate.
Men may be able to completely ignore the rottenness of a bad relationship if only for the 15 minutes they need to gratify their physical needs. Women are not typically built that way. I think it's a God-given built in consequence for men that if they don't care enough about investing in the real relationship, that the sexual side will suffer.
You know, even if a wife dn "deny" her husband, but the core relationship is poor, she is NOT going to be able to completely give herself, and neither is going to really enjoy that area to the fullest. It's only natural; she can't truly give all of herself to the fullest extent to a husband ashe isn't truly connected with. That is the way most women are made.
It seems that you may feel that marriage is an answer to your physical longings, but I really haven't heard you speak of intimacy of mind/soul/heart. I can tell you that with most any woman who wants more than a one-night-stand, THAT (true mind/soul/heart intimacy) is the kind of intimacy that must come first, next, and always, or the other areas WILL suffer.
Understand, it's not that most women want to "hold sex over you." It's built into us, I believe, to long for a deeper connection with our mate, so that marriage, the multi-faceted relationship the Lord gave us to beautifully reflect Christ and the Church, will accomplish that reflection without sinking to the lowest common denominator, which even animals can do. I believe it's simply the way the Creator made women so that His purposes will prevail in this, the deepest, and potentially most beautiful of relationships on earth. The perversion begins when we lose our way, stop follwing after Him, and use aspects of the marriage relationship simply to satisfy certain fleshly desires of our own rather than to seek a better way; to love and glorify God by loving and serving each other. That's my take, Law. Does any of that make sense to you? Blessings, mj9
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Law asked:
Could I ask a personnel question ? You say just now your getting along. Well before this realization What kind of a sex life did you have?What kind now?I'm hearing that a womens sexuality is a very complex thing. A pastor once said the Problem with marriage is it doesn't solve any problems" I lust like crazy Satan wants me to think of all the sex I'm missing.and to go out and sin with no regard for consequences?I confess to God everyday my anger towards him for not letting me marry. But he has been good to me in many others.No I'm not rich but I'm saved! Not handicapped Not a Pro sport professional
Last edited on Thu Oct 19th, 2006 10:02 pm by mj9
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