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shale
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 02:49 am |
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I've read so many articles & listened to countless messages that all warn against the great danger that porn poses -- that it can rob us of our God-given, God-glorifying sex drive. It can take away our healthy attraction for our wives.
I struggled for years with porn - now I'm clean. I want very much to love my wife the way she deserves to be loved - the way God intends me to love her.
So how - when you've bathed youself for years in unnatural, exciting imagery - do you regain that attraction for loving sex with your wife?
Where do you find the practical advice for men who have driven their sex drives into the dirt by running it at redline for years?
I know others must deal with this - having trouble getting aroused when all that stimulus is gone. I want my wife to be enough - I want to want her and only her.
How do you get there after you've ravaged youself so terribly??
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henny
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 03:44 am |
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Shale,
I went on a 40 fast for all sexual activity. Nothing at all, other than a kiss good bye at the door. During that time I prayed for God to restore me to the place I should have been. My wife and I have a wonderful sex life after 30 plus years of battling a porn addiction.
Blessings
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Abby
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 05:13 am |
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As a wife, I'd like to add my two cents worth. First, talk to her. Tell her your feelings but be loving and kind about it. Suggest the two of you take a vow of celibacy for a little while. Second, court her like you've never done before. Shower her with affection and love and become intimate (sex is not intimacy). Remember, intimacy for a woman is sharing, talking, start devotions together, have a date night. Sex is a demonstration of love. Find the love again. Third, pray, a lot. Maybe prayer should be first on the list.
Praying for you and your wife.
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alpha
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 07:50 am |
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| Don't think of your intimate times as "all about you". Focus on pleasing your wife. Use other parts of your body if physical arousal is a problem. Make it about her. That is after you've shown her that you care for her in non-sexual ways. Consider pleasing your wife and going without for yourself if need be. What I think you'll find is that serving your wife in your intimate encounters will be arousing for you. You will feel like a man and a husband that you were meant to be. That will be a "potent" experience.
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 02:48 pm |
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I agree with the earlier posters. Right now, the important thing is developing a new emotional intimacy; what happens physically is probably way down the list of both your needs and those of your wife if you are early in recovery.
Are you sharing openly with your wife about your addiction and about what you are learning about yourself emotionally and about how you feel about her? If not, then I can't overstate how importrant that sort of emotional contact is for both of you. Work on listening to one another and on sharing your feelings to one another. We addicts can't do that, and learning now to do it opens up very powerful connections.
And expect there may be some problems. You and she are probably both scared and angry and grieving, and all those feelings make emotional intimacy hard. You're learning a whole new way to live, too, and that process includes a whole new way to live sexually. In the couple of years I've been in recovery, we have had some problems because of lowered libido on my part, which in turn makes my wife feel unwanted and inadequate. I'm not sure how much my issues have been psychological and how much they have been medical or pharmacological (and yes, I'm working both with my doctor and my therapist on this question), but things are getting better now. By staying calm, telling one another how much we care for one another, and trying to share and listen to one another's feelings, we are still building a much better relationship than we had before.
Just how it's working for me - relax and focus on feelings and communication.
Tim M.
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Steve
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 09:23 pm |
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Shale, I apologize for the short message. Time is limited.
FYI - Every Man's Battle by Stephen Arterburn goes into great detail about this topic. I suggest reading it.
Regards,
Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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shale
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 02:26 pm |
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| Thanks for the replies. I guess I can't imagine telling my wife that. I can't think of many things more heart-breaking for her.
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APR
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 06:18 pm |
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We are in this boat as well. We feel it's a season we are going through, with healing, stress health and other factors. My accountability partner says we went through it as well and we are praying about doing the fast.
Our feelings for each other are strong, but while together we both have relied on the images of the past, prior encounters, etc that we can't do anymore and we have found ourselves as the dog who caught the car...now what?
We know we will get through this as well, I have a feeling it's a time/healing thing.
God Bless
Art
____________________
I am the way and truth and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through Me.
-John 14:6
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TimM
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 08:32 pm |
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shale wrote: Thanks for the replies. I guess I can't imagine telling my wife that. I can't think of many things more heart-breaking for her. Some day you'll need to get there, though.
Tim M.
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shale
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Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 04:09 pm |
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Not trying to be argumentative - but why would that be productive?
My sin has been revealed, we've been through counseling, I have committed myself to purity. If this is a matter that involves purposeful retooling of my drive, prayer, & waiting - what would be the good of telling my wife that I am still attracted to images of other women?
I find my wife beautiful - I am attracted to her. But the misuse of all the twisted things has left me wanting something more than what the two of us share.
Why on earth would I tell her that??
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shale
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Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 04:39 pm |
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Lovenbible posted the following in a thread on the EMB New life ministries site:
"The EMB book speciffically outlines that we are not to share the details of our sins with our wives. They can be easily emotionally hurt and deeply wounded by the revelation of you turning to any outlet for sexual gratification other than her."
This is what I'm getting at. I want to know how to correct the problem - but telling her these details seems it would be cruel rather than helpful.
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henny
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Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 04:43 pm |
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Shale,
Unlike most folks here, I don't recommend full disclosure. I have part of my past that my wife is not aware of and find no valid reason to make her aware. I believe you could go to her and discuss the damage done to your psyche from your addiction. If you haven't gone here, I suggest you do:
http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/2005/12/senate_subcommi.html
It talks about the brain chemistry of pornography addiction. It is very informative and gives you a format to search for healing with your wife without the added pain of disclosing your fantasies.
If you are truly porn free and seeking God's help in this, you will find relief. But don't expect it to be instantaneous. Shelley Lubben talks about her 8 year journey to healing. Many on this site have mentioned the years it took them to find healing. You didn't become an addict overnight, nor were you there for just a few weeks. It will take time.
But, God is good. God is amazing. God will clean this up.
Be faithful and you will be blessed.
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TimM
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Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 08:00 pm |
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Shale,
A very quick reply:
First, my apologies for being brusque in my earlier post. I understood you to be saying that you had not disclosed your addiction at all to your wife. If she knows about your behavior and if she has had and continues to have the opportunity to ask you anything she wants to ask, then you're in a very different place than I understood you to be. How much information our spouses need varies a lot, but obviously it has to be their decision when they need to know more and when the details would only cause pain. The point I think we have to reach is being open about the existence and major features of our addictive actions - I don't see how we can be emotionally intimate and how we can be respectful of our spouses as adults if we can't get to that point. Beyond that point, though, I think how much we say has to depend on the nature of of our continuing opening up and sharing.
For me and for my wife, it has felt important to be able to talk about what we both think is working and not working in both our emotional and our physical relationship. I'm trying hard to understand whether my own reduced libido is a consequence of age or of medications or of the psychological consequences of recovery from decades of addiction. This question naturally interests my wife, and I have talked with her about what I learn from my doctor and my therapist as we explore this question. It has been really important for her to hear that I'm not looking at her with disgust, that I'm not fantasizing about other women, and that I care enough about her to regard our situation as a problem that I'm trying to fix. I try to share generally what happens at counseling sessions, but by mutual agreement I don't get into the gross details, like a session after I had had a slip where my therapist was asking in pretty specific detail what I had viewed and what I found exciting about it.
That's how things work for us, anyway. I can certainly agree that it would be reasonable to share only that you were working on overcoming the psychological effects of addiction, and were hopeful that success would lead to a better physical relationship, and not to say more unless your wife directly probes.
Again, just how things work for us, and again, my apologies for misunderstanding how far along you were in being open to your wife.
Tim M.
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shale
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Posted: Thu Feb 8th, 2007 03:34 pm |
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No apologies necessary - I appreciate your advice & encouragement. the toughest part of this whole process for me has been disclosing things to my wife. Maybe that's everyone's hardest struggle - I don't know. It's definitely what has been my highest obstacle.
That's why I really need to grapple with those issues - especially when my gut tells me NOT to tell. I need to make sure my gut's leading me in the right direction.
I have always - and continue to - favored the notion that I would secretly be able to fight, conquer & leave behind this demon without anyone having to know. Of course I know that to be a white-washed version of the same cloak of secrecy under which the sin was born & nurtured to begin with.
But I still have to fight that. I still instinctively dodge anything that exposes the fact that I struggle with this - or ever struggled with it.
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TimM
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Posted: Thu Feb 8th, 2007 05:02 pm |
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I'm not sure whether for me it's harder to be honest with my wife, or to dare to be honest with myself. Looking inside myself with clarity and honesty and admitting to my wife what I see are both really hard, and both absolutely critical.
Do well,
Tim M.
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splendor
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 02:54 pm |
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Brucenz, do you think that post is appropriate? Obviously you are active in your addiction, you brag about some sleazy conquest with another sex addict and make light of it. I see no reason to brag about being CONTROLLED by sex.
If you want help- ask. If you want to believe that sex makes you special, then go back to your porn sights and let the men here who are searching for a more fulfilling,peaceful life heal.
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splendor
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 03:26 pm |
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Shale, Tim has good advice. It's all about learning to be intimate-vulnerable to your wife. You can broach the subject and tell her in a more gentle way, than telling her you desire these images more than her. Tell her that all that porn viewing and fantasizing has caused damage to you and that you are trying to learn to be more intimate. Always be truthful, but don't get to detailed, unless she asks.
Try being intimate. Share your feelings and fears. Let her in. After over 3 years without slipping, my husband is still learning to be intimate. The sexual acting out was just the outward sign of a deeper problem, of insecurities and poor coping strategies. He is learning how intimate,loving sex satisfies, and lustful sex is never satisfied.
Henny, here is the problem with holding back the whole truth- YOUR healing. YOU know that your being deceitful, and because of this there will always be a wedge between you and your wife and true, complete intimacy. JMO
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Suzi
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 05:24 pm |
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Shale,
My question.... how does your wife feel about all this? Does she seem to WANT to know more than what you are willing to tell her? Most women may not want to know exact intimate details, but it is very difficult to rebuild trust and intimacy when we feel our spouses are holding something back from us. There are just things we NEED to know, and it's different not just with different women, but also different sometimes with different stages of healing.
My husband hates to talk about it... his past or even any present struggles... he doesn't want to hurt me. What he hasn't caught onto yet is that when he feels confident enough to TRUST ME with what he is struggling with, then it's so much easier for me to learn to trust him.
My biggest fear is that he is having a huge struggle, is afraid or unwilling to share it with me so we can be a partnership/team, and then... at some point he will lose the battle and begin acting out again.
I recommend that you respect your wife's feelings and her need to know (if she truly DOES want to know). Just my opinion....
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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splendor
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 05:48 pm |
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"What he hasn't caught onto yet is that when he feels confident enough to TRUST ME with what he is struggling with, then it's so much easier for me to learn to trust him." So very true. 
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gaylon
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 12:38 am |
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In response to the ladies:
One time recently my wife said she wanted to be "intimate". To me, this has always meant only one thing, and it begins with 's'. I asked her "what do you mean, intimate", and she was incredulous, and thought I was joking. There's a disconnect, for sure... Most men are clueless as to what women want and need for intimacy, although I admit that it "feels good", when I engage in activities that she considers intimate (reading scriptures, talking about feelings, prayer, etc), but frankly, it's all pretty new for me. Men just mostly aren't wired to know intuitively the way to communicate with women. We pretty much have to be busted upside the head with what a woman wants, to understand it, whereas women can communicate in much more subtle ways. And, the idea of trusting her with my struggles, that so directly impact her, and in a hurtful way, is completely counter-intuitive. It doesn't even feel right that I should do it, since I know it will hurt her. It seems more "honest" to not say anything, since that is the less hurtful path. In counseling, we learned that it's ok to be angry, and to hurt, as long as it leads to understanding each other, and as long as we work it out. This is so unnatural to me. I guess decades (since childhood) of solving emotional problems by escaping to sexual things, instead of facing issues and resolving them, has contributed heavily to this.
My wife says what Suzi said, in so many words:
..."My biggest fear is that he is having a huge struggle, is afraid or unwilling to share it with me so we can be a partnership/team, and then... at some point he will lose the battle and begin acting out again. "...
And, it actually is true, at least for me. When I quit talking to her, I start slipping again. I can feel it, within just a few days of not talking. So, it's scary for me to talk, and "scary" has always been something to be avoided for me, but the results of not being "intimate" in the ways she wants and needs are not good.
--- Gaylon V.
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