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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 02:42 pm |
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I have been married 23 years. I found out after 11 of them, he never was faithful.
He had to testify against a Prostitute Business to keep his record clean, so he had to tell me. He was regular there.
He said he quit. I worked hard to forgive him AND trust him, and found out five years latter that he had been back at it for three years.
Porn was never enough; stripper joints soon weren't enough, which led to prostitutes.
We have more than five children, (I won't say how many because it could give away my ID.)
We moved to a new place, a new start. And two years latter he was back at stripper joints. He admitted that the only reason he hadn’t been with prostitutes again was because it was to much bother to do and hide.
I stayed for the kids. I love him, but that wasn't enough to keep me here.
I will NEVER trust him again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...
(Does anyone here know what it is like waiting for results to an AIDS test?)
So we are both making the sacrifice for the children. I live with a man I can't trust and he lives with me watching over his shoulder. No more chances to live a double life.
Crazy thing is we love each other, never fight, and have tons in common. We really are best friends.
We are well respected as devoted Christians in the community and church.
But some day, when the kids are grown, I will be free to leave.
Sexually, he still wants the prostitutes. He wants me to look like them. He wants me to lead the double life with him. When we go out of town he wants me to compromise myself for him; (dress sleazy and act sleazy in public, make out in a bar...) He sees nothing wrong with it, because we are going to the hotel lounge... in a dark corner etc...
I have a hard time with this. I try to compromise between his desires for me to be sensual and desires to be someone I can respect.
I believe I should please him, but in order to even wear what pleases him in the bedroom is emotionaly difficult, because it reminds me of the "other women" that have there have been in the past.
He wants me to be some one I am not. He recently bought me a full length mink coat for our anniversary. I said, very sweetly and humbly, "Did I ever say I want a mink coat." "Did I ever say I thought they were pretty or liked them?" (No we are not rich. It was used from e-bay, $800.00 for a coat that is 3 grand new.)
I know one of his fantasies was for us to go out some night and me wear a full length coat, and nothing else. I know that is why he bought this coat. I know that the pole girls in the elite stripper joints he went to wore them.
He even was shopping for a wig and henna tattoos.... Where does pleasing your husband stop? Why do I have to torment myself like this. I could have happily wore the coat, tattoos, garters etc if I had never known about the other women. I did a lot of this privately for him before I knew. But now, it hurts. It is getting where I can't do this anymore.
He shops on e-bay for stuff.... ha ha... Can any one say,” soft porn fix."
If I drink a little, I can get through these nights out.
But there are sometimes, when I am sober, that I have to keep the lights out so he don't see me cry.
He has been reasonably clean, because I watch him like a hawk, for 5 years now. But I know that is only because I never give him a chance. I have spy-ware, (that he knows of,) on his PC, and I always go with him when he goes out of town... Even to the store, he takes one of the kids.
I hate to keep this up. But I know I still can't trust him and if he ever cheats again I will have to leave or loose myself. I am fighting to hang on for the kids.
But some day, I will find a man who loves me for who I am, and who would never hurt me like he has done. Eight to ten more years... I will be in my mid sixties. If he isn't that man by then, then it will be someone else, no matter how much I love him.
This week I have thrown away everything but the fur coat, and I will never put it on. He can sell it. I kept some pretty things that are sexy, but no more garters, leather etc... If it makes me think of "them" I just can't do it anymore!
What brought on this rant? Well in the news this week the Govenor of NY was caught dealing with a high priced call girl- prostitue ring. My husband has been too interested... he even clicked to see extra photos etc. His actions might have changed, but his heart is still the same. He also did some more e-bay shopping this week... Just dresses..ha ha.. the kind they wear in stip clubs and on street corners! Thank God he didn't buy any of it this time. He also brought home the mink coat I took to hang at the office. I told him it wasn't me and I didn't like it. But I know he is going to ask me to take it on our trip next week. He don't care enough to remember what I share with him about these trips. His thinks with his..., never mind.
Thanks for giving me the chance to rant. I had to burst. We have been to counselors... He never opened up.
Last edited on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 07:25 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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It is heartbreaking to read this.
Your husband is given over to a reprobate mind. I recognize this because many years ago, I was like him, but in a different vein and didn't visit prostitutes. But I did degrade my wife and expected things of her that I should never have had in my heart.
His heart is very sick and his mind is sick. He needs the mighty conviction of Jehovah God to expose the wickedness in his heart. He does not love God and does not honor you. He should be flat out in front of the Holy Ghost in deep repentance for the years of lewd and filthy behavior and the lying to his family and fellow brethren in the church.
This man's soul is in grave peril for his conscience has been seared with the hot iron of lust.
Go to "Other Topics" section and read my post on "Being a Man." You may want to reprint it and hand it to him.
You can also check out "Pure Life Ministries" as they have had cases similar to your's in which the man has been utterly given over to his sins. I'm sure some of the ladies on this board can chime in with other helps and advice for you.
Doesn't sin, rebellion, and disobedience bring us into the most tragic situations? God help us to see who our real enemy is: this ugly, stupid self spirit that listens to such awful suggestions from the enemy of our souls. We began to find the most warped and perverted things pleasureable as sin twists our souls into something not recognizable in the world of angels and saints. No wonder we are told to crucify the flesh with the lusts and affections thereof. Taking up our Cross and following Jesus is simply sound advice when you come down to this. That Old Man should be dead and buried with Christ, but how many times is he allowed to live and reign and have dominion over us? This is not the Christian walk we were called unto. The Voice of God didn't bring us to the foot of the cross for us to turn and despise His Grace and act like this.
Praying for you and for your husband to get a spiritual 2x4 right between the eyes. And the Sword of God's Word piercing that heart to let all that putrid junk flow out. He is going to be so sorry before God when he finally sees what he has done and how he has devoted himself to wickedness for so many years.
May God give you wisdom on the things you should and should not do and be participating in.
Wilderness Voice
Last edited on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 03:13 pm by Wilderness Voice
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 06:37 pm |
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Dear PS and All God's Children:
We should guard our hearts and minds against ideas and desires that are things of the enemy. Pretending to be sinners to heighten our sexual experience is not a good desire. How far can fantasies take us into acting like those whom God came to redeem. Should we play act out Mary Magdalene and her lovers before she met Christ? Should we imagine ourselves to be David cheating with Bathsheba? Why not pretend were the devil having relations with a fallen angel? Or a fallen angel with one of the daughters of men like in the old testament?
I know some of this is extreme. But the point is that if we find ourselves desiring to make a sexual experience hotter by using fantasies involving otherwise sinful acts and people - we need to have an alarm go off. Something is not right. We have crossed a line - gone too far.
PS - this is not meant to condemn you - but add support to your feelings that this is a wrong path. We should never pretend to be sinners for our pleasure. This is mocking a creature on whom God has pity and Mercy - but treating it as if it is desirable to be in that fallen state. God bring us all back to a desire for holiness and purity and that our sexual natures would simply be normal - not heightened to some limitless thrills of lust and ego pleasing.
I trust this will give you some more ammunition. May God be in our bedrooms as well as every room of our temple within and without!
Wilderness Voice
Last edited on Fri Mar 14th, 2008 09:54 pm by Wilderness Voice
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 07:36 pm |
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Hi PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe,
First, I would suggest that both of you read this article.
What Is Not Okay In Bed
By Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus
My heart breaks for you. The little I have been through does not qualify me to speak to your pain, but I would like to share some thoughts. Any questions are for your reflection, not necessarily for answers here.
There is only one "who loves me for who I am, and who would never hurt me like he has done." That is your Savior. You obviously did not know how broken your husband was before you married him. What makes you think that you would be able to discern the heart of some other man in 8-10 years, especially with having lived with brokenness as your every day norm for so long?
"Crazy thing is we love each other, never fight, and have tons in common. We really are best friends."
Please read 1 Cor. 13:4-7, and try to tell us again that your husband loves you with agape love. I do not believe you can do it with an honest heart and straight face.
Never fight? Am I supposed to believe that all the discussions about his adultery have been cozy, amicable chats? Am I supposed to believe that he has taken all of the supervision without protest/complaint?
If you have to drink to hide from your pain, and/or cry through what should be the most intimate expression of your mutual love, then you do not truly believe that he loves you for who you are. Perhaps he needs to see you cry. Perhaps it would wake him up, though I wouldn't hold my breath. Additionally, it is recommended that couples leave the light on when there is a problem with fantasy, because having to keep eyes open and look in to the eyes of the one with whom one is physically engaged, makes fantasizing about other experiences much more difficult.
He can sell that coat on Ebay as fast as he bought it there. If he would actually agree to open up, the money would be much better spent on counselling. Such problems usually have deep roots in childhood or adolescence, early exposure to porn, molestation, abuse, and/or problematic familial relationships, absent father, etc. Only when he is willing and able to face those hidden giants, can he start to face what it is that he seeks to numb and/or from which he seeks to run. You will never be able to "fix" him by attempting to fulfill any fantasy.
Keeping a wild animal muzzled, except at feeding time, does not mean that one has a loving pet. Only when the muzzle can be left off 24-7, without any fear, is there truly a mutually loving relationship. While you have muzzled your just cause for divorce, that does not mean that you have a biblical marriage. Divorce after a long marriage is going to be painful for all involved, whether it is now, or 8-10 years from now. If you are going to do it, it should be done because of his unfaithfulness, not because you have located a "replacement," who may or may not turn out to be any different.
I can't help but wonder if your children, at least the older ones, haven't figured out that something is terribly wrong in the home/marriage. This is affecting them. It shows both boys and girls that this is how women should be treated. You do not want your sons to repeat this with your daughters-in-law, or your daughters to accept this trap of infidelity/abuse. And yes, it is at a minimum emotional abuse.
Please tell me that your husband does not teach, or hold any role of leadership in your church. This is not a role that someone whose heart and mind are so corrupted should be in.
Praying for you...
TruthSeeker
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 09:02 pm |
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Dear Wilderness,
I am not sure you meant to post your last post to this thread, but it does fit. I struggle constantly; though I never fantasize that I am a prostitute. I do wonder where dressing in a way that, at least to me, represents them, is right or wrong; or helpful our harmful to him. I wonder if HE is fantasizing that I am a prostitute. Of course he says he is not.
He said those women dress the way they do because men like it... and that, Selling themselves is in adultery is wrong, but that doesn't make the way they dress wrong. (I personally think for him, it's the whole bad girl, naughty look, turn on. I could be far wrong, so I don't argue.)
I hate having to be what I'm not. But I get confused. I know I should lay down my life, pick up my cross, please my husband.... meet his needs, but sometimes it feels so wrong, then I think, "Well, that is just my self-righteous flesh wanting it's own way, and I am being a prude." When I can't respect myself the next day, should I think that is what laying down my life is, putting his needs over mine?
I have been told by a pastor that the marriage bed can not be defiled and whatever happens there is holy as long as it's done in love. So.... I love him, I want to please him, I know what pleases him... does that make EVERYTHING holy? One counselor I said my body belongs to my husband and it's my duty to use it to please him as he wishes. I schooled myself with "how to" articles and books, and I wore what ever pleased him.
Now considering, is it "helpful or harmful" when it comes to his SA? First he says he does not have an addiction. Second he says it helps against temptation if he is getting everything he wants at home. (Yet, it never stopped him.) I wonder though if extreme sensuality feeds his SA. It does make him "different," almost drunken in away. But is that a natural response that God intended when a man is enjoying intimate time with his wife? Some would argue yes. I would never want to deny him that "feeling," if it truly is a need. If it is wrong, at what point does passion become sensuality?
I very recently threw a lot of stuff away. I have done that before. It is usually when I am mad at him because I found something on his PC. I end up with a guilt trip and out of love for him, (and my desire for acceptance too,) I replace it.
When the time comes, I fight thoughts that torment me. It is intimidating knowing that my skills are not as professional as he was accustomed to. The pain of betrayal comes back, even after all these years. (I fear that these women will always share our bed through both of our thoughts.)
We never drink at home, but if we are on a date night, I know what is coming up. I will drink two glasses of wine with my dinner. It is not so much that I lose sobriety, but it helps the pain in my heart, and eases some of my apprehension and worry about meeting his expectations. A third drink IS intoxicating and quiet liberating, even to the point of being an aphrodisiac. So needless to say, he is pleased if I drink a third, and I sometimes do on his birthday or our anniversary because more will be expected of me then.
So the next day I feel guilty and the confusion of "sin or false condemnation" spin around in my head. After years of this, I don't know if I am coming or going. I repent just in case it is sin and I pray if is just the enemy spying out our liberty that God will free me from condemnation. "I feel guilty if I do, and guilty if I don't." Sometimes I wonder if I will eventually go crazy. I look forward to the day when I am free from this life of confusion and heart ache and at the same time I love him and never want to loose him.
I did read your post "Being a Man" and I appreciate you sharing that. I don't think it would sway him though. I don't think he is willing to admit how damaging this all has been. Something tells me he will have to lose everything before he hates the porn industry and it's influence the way I do. I have promised myself that if cheats again I will not hide his sin. The next time he makes that bed of filth he WILL lay in it for all to see.
He argues that, “Love covers a multitude of sin.” Therefore I should forgive, forget, and hide this all seventy times seven.
A man can beat a woman and see the abuse in the scars and bruises. So can everyone else. Here though, there are beatings and scars that can be self-denied by the abuser, and hid from outsiders; until one day it results in such anguish that there is suicide to end the pain. I will not let it go that far again. I passed on it last time, I will not subject myself to it again.
Next time, (God for bid there is a next time,) it WILL be him who hurts and feels the humiliation of his actions. If I have done anything wrong, it is in protecting him from the consequences of his behavior. He is still the hero in the eyes of our families, and I am the one who for some unknown reason to them, am the weak mental case who has periodically through our marriage broken-down when it looked like I had everything going for me. I take it that it has been my cross to bare this humiliation, but I also feel that grace is running out. I have children to raise, and I can’t do that from a mental institution or a grave.
I covet your prayer for us both.
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onewife
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 09:45 pm |
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Our situations are not quite the same (I'm not aware of strippers& prositutes) although we've been married long, have many children and are both married to a SA- AND both probably wish to stay married(?) but I want to"call you out"...gently, I hope
you are staying with a man you will NEVER trust-you have to watch dog -can't wait to leave(maybe?)- dream of a "different"man- you are drinking to get through it(drunk or not , huge red flags)--- and you are doing this is FOR your kids????
Perhaps it would be better for them to see one parent live as reponsibly, honestly, soberly, lovingly, quietly as possible-focused 1st on God and next on them...patiently waiting for dad/hubby to recover and not require a watchdog-to be trustworthy again, to BE that different man. (or not as he wishes). Living seperately could spare you and the kids watching a lot of crap and alot of daily drama. Its not "easy". Its sad, scary, lonely. You have less money, less free time, no help. You have to give up control of your addict husband. Your kids might not understand-they might miss Dad. He might flake out on them. But sometimes repeated bad behavior justifies it. And its one way to really see evidence of the heart change you are so ready for.
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Fri Mar 14th, 2008 10:06 pm |
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PS - yes, that post was for here and I went in and fixed the addressing.
The very same chapter, Ephesians 5, that addresses how husband and wife should reverence each other also tells us to have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness and goes on to tell us to reprove them. Husband and wife have a duty to reprove each other when they have descended into fornication, uncleaness, whoremongering, filthy talking and joking, coveting, and doing things that are a shame to speak of. Neither husband nor wife are called to be in subjection to such things in each other. Read the Chapter as a whole to get a complete picture of responsiblity in marriage and relationships in general.
My wife and I are saying a prayer for you.
Wilderness Voice
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:03 pm |
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Dear Truth Seeker
We must have been posting at the same time. J Thank you for responding.
You wrote
There is only one "who loves me for who I am, and who would never hurt me like he has done." That is your Savior. You obviously did not know how broken your husband was before you married him. What makes you think that you would be able to discern the heart of some other man in 8-10 years, especially with having lived with brokenness as your every day norm for so long?
I barely knew my husband before I married him. I was 21, from a broken home, and didn’t even know what to look for. I am now more than twice that age and the years have taught me a lot. I wouldn’t say brokenness is a “everyday” norm. This does not consume me. There are triggers that make times hard, but the everyday norm is actually peaceful and joyful. In every area but this one, his SA, he is a good man and we have an Ideal marriage. That is what makes this so bloody crazy. No kidding, MANY people have compared us to the Waltons on TV. Truth be said, our life is more peaceful than theirs in many ways. But… this one area is a booger, isn’t it?
It’s the triggers, like the recent news about the NY Governor, that bring up this turmoil again. It is out of town trips, because I wouldn’t be going if I could trust him, and its anniversary’s. Some times things in movies, but we are careful there. We have been living with this arrangement for so long that we can almost walk around in the dark.
Please read 1 Cor. 13:4-7, and try to tell us again that your husband loves you with agape love. I do not believe you can do it with an honest heart and straight face.
No, not Agape love. I pray for that. But I obvious don’t believe it is that kind of love or I wouldn’t be hoping for a day when I do receive that kind of love.
Never fight? Am I supposed to believe that all the discussions about his adultery have been cozy, amicable chats? Am I supposed to believe that he has taken all of the supervision without protest/complaint?
Honest to goodness; We NEVER fight. The husband has the last word… until this cropped it’s head more than once. Then I prayed through and KNOW God does not expect me to subject myself to a marriage where adultery is permissible.
Seven years ago, on that second day of discovery, when I realized he was back at his old tricks, I took two quiet weeks to seek God. I did not fight with my husband. Neither one of us are fighters. We disagree on things. He respectfully listens to what I have to say and considers it, then he makes the decision. WE DO NOT_ EVER Fight. We have never called names or digressed into past disagreements.
One time, just once, we were in the bed room and having a serious disagreement, (about a couple thousand dollars he gave to friends/employees while I was trying to find money to buy sneakers for the kids without touching the savings for the down payment on the house,) I raised my voice and he raised his back. My son started crying in the other room. He had NEVER heard us raise our voices before and it scared him. We never raised them again. (It was my husband’s right to give away the money, my disagreement was that he did it secretly because he new it would bother me, and I found out. I was upset because of the secret; it being a trigger to the past. Once he understood that it was the secret that upset me so badly, he understood my feelings and the disagreement was over with his promise to never keep something like that from me again. And as far as I know, he hasn’t.)
If you have to drink to hide from your pain, and/or cry through what should be the most intimate expression of your mutual love, then you do not truly believe that he loves you for who you are.
I think that is what I said.
Actually, it is only when we have these “date nights” and out of town trips that his expectations of hours kinky intimacy, (that includes the sensual clothing and what not,) that I struggle so desperately to forget the past and the women of the past. Our regular love making at home is what I think most people would call normal. During these times I can get away with a pretty teddy some low level lighting and things are… well normal. At first even these times were hard like others here have expressed. But it has been years, and unless there has been a recent trigger, the healing that has occurred has made it possible, for even me, to enjoy the “normal” intimacy between us.
In the last two months we have had our anniversary date night and almost weekly out of town trips. This is why I am here, venting, now.
Perhaps he needs to see you cry. Perhaps it would wake him up, though I wouldn't hold my breath. Additionally, it is recommended that couples leave the light on when there is a problem with fantasy, because having to keep eyes open and look in to the eyes of the one with whom one is physically engaged, makes fantasizing about other experiences much more difficult.
It’s during those trigger days, when we are at home, (and there is no wine to ease the pain,) that I ask for the lights out. Normally they aren’t. And on those “nights out” they definitely are on. I ask for the lights out when I am struggling now, because I don’t want him to see me cry. Maybe it is because I expect myself to be over all this by now, (7 years,) and it does hurt him to see me hurt, and I don’t want to continue to hurt him.
You have made a very good point that I never thought of about the lights and fantasy. I won’t be silently cursing the lights anymore. 
Last edited on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:19 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:05 pm |
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He can sell that coat on Ebay as fast as he bought it there. If he would actually agree to open up, the money would be much better spent on counseling. Such problems usually have deep roots in childhood or adolescence, early exposure to porn, molestation, abuse, and/or problematic familial relationships, absent father, etc. Only when he is willing and able to face those hidden giants, can he start to face what it is that he seeks to numb and/or from which he seeks to run. You will never be able to "fix" him by attempting to fulfill any fantasy.
Thank you. BiG thank you. . We tried counseling five years ago. We went to a Christian councilor who understood the triggers and the long term healing. It did help me and it helped my husband understand what I was going through. But… I wish more would have been done to help him see the difference between lust and love, between sensuality for sensuality sake and making love, even kinky love. I wish he could understand how asking me to please him by being something I am not… like the tattoos and “naughty girl” clothing hurts me. I have told him, but I really don’t think he gets it. I keep pray for a way to explain it so he could understand. I am going to try again to communicate this to him, and if that doesn’t work I will see a councilor and ask him to go too.
Keeping a wild animal muzzled, except at feeding time, does not mean that one has a loving pet. Only when the muzzle can be left off 24-7, without any fear, is there truly a mutually loving relationship. While you have muzzled your just cause for divorce, that does not mean that you have a biblical marriage. Divorce after a long marriage is going to be painful for all involved, whether it is now, or 8-10 years from now. If you are going to do it, it should be done because of his unfaithfulness, not because you have located a "replacement," who may or may not turn out to be any different.
Boy, did I miss communicate. That is what I get for venting on a trigger. That is why we never fight, lol. Because we always wait until things are calmed down a bit before we open our mouths. I came on here venting as a RE-action to a trigger. Sorry. I was acting in pain. I don’t do that normally. If you look, can see that I have been registered here for two years, and yet this is my first post. Maturity demands that we act instead of react. I reacted.
I am not looking for anyone new. I am just having a pity party because I know that who I am is not enough for him. Like any woman, I wish I was. I don’t like the “muzzle” either, but it IS better than the alternatives. He understands my need for it, even if he doesn’t admit his own need. The alternative is divorce. I have been married to this man for 23 years. I know what would happen during a separation. He would act out until he hit bottom, and come crawling back. It would be best for him, I agree. More history of him acting out is not going to make it easier on me. Not to mention aids and other issues, if I took him back. The time will probably come, and I doubt that I will take him back.
Last edited on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:23 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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Continued:
I come from a broken home, and both he and I are willing to put up with the “muzzle” for the sake of the children. The separation will/would be messy. The children have done nothing to deserve it. As far as I am concerned, the one to pay the cost of years of illicit sex is not the children. If we can muzzle it until they are grown it is worth it. It is laying down our lives for theirs. They definitely have a “Walton Family” life. They do NOT know what has happened. My oldest two who are now adults know some of it. They told me they never knew when it was happening, and they were teenagers then. The others were even younger. If we ever do separate or divorce, hopefully the youngest will be at least 18 and it won’t have the dire effects that it has on a child who can’t understand these things and needs the security of a home. Every year counts. I am going to put off the reckoning day as long as there is grace to do so. My husband is a great father, (except for his jeopardizing family for his SA lusts,) and if he is willing to wear this muzzle as an alternative to divorce and splitting the family, then there must be some love there, right? I am willing to accept the fact that he thinks he needs me to be someone I am not and bare the pain of that for my children,( what a small price to pay for them,)another 10 years. As a Christian we are viewing this in light of eternity. What is 10 more years?
I can't help but wonder if your children, at least the older ones, haven't figured out that something is terribly wrong in the home/marriage. This is affecting them. It shows both boys and girls that this is how women should be treated. You do not want your sons to repeat this with your daughters-in-law, or your daughters to accept this trap of infidelity/abuse. And yes, it is at a minimum emotional abuse.
If we had only been raised like my children are being raised, then this wouldn’t be an issue in our lives. They have no clue. I explained above about asking two of my grown children. They said they knew that something was wrong with me back then, because I spent days in my room and I came out with my eyes red and puffy. That scared them a bit, but that is nothing like parents fighting and separation. They both told me they knew nothing else and they were very surprised to find out anything serious had happend. They also had no idea that their father struggled with any temptations in the area of women. He never brought anything home, even the PC was the one at work. He hid it well from me all those years, and we likewise hid everything well from the children.
God was my rock through this. He helped me. The first discovery was hard because of the shock, I talked to one person, a pastors wife, and she gave me all the wrong advice. I actualy struggled thinking it could be my fault. But I did not fall apart to the point where others, (including my children,) knew. I leaned on God.
The second discovery was harder because I had given him so much forgiveness, so much unworthy trust. He had seen my pain last time, then he stayed clean for three years and had started it all over again. The first time he had promised me that he would tell me if he ever struggled again and we would get more help before temptations went as far as actions, but then he didn’t keep that promise.
My response at the second discovery was more, "educated." I sought serious counseling for depression, and then I insisted on marriage counseling. I read a lot concerning SA.
That was seven years ago. It took me a couple weeks of crying and praying to feel like I was strong and I knew what to do. I told him I would never trust him again. I said I would stay only under strict conditions, which included my going with him when he went out of town and a separate bank account with the money to hire an investigator if I ever thought it was necessary. The conditions also included counseling. He was sorry, he swore it would never happen again, but we tried the sorry and swearing before and I was beyond that.
We agreed that God would have us do what was necessary for the children. You don’t have a quiver of children, home birth, home school, homestead, live with one income; making all these sacrifices, and not consider making the sacrifices necessary to hold it all together. In the past my husband did not sacrifice his lust, now he must sacrifice that and more. It has been seven years. There has been some serious PC violations of hardcore porn as recently as two years ago when I registered here.
Since then he has consistently tried to see just how much he can get away with. I know that the “problem” is still there by the sites he does visit, (usually not out right porn, but filth about TV stars and clicks on links to pictures in the news about them being caught in "compromising positions.") The "news" is full of filth, e-bay, profiles of people on the yahoo games etc. _obvious clicks from those site to sites that... a man who recognized and admitted his weakness would not visit. It is a problem that he has never admitted to. I gave him links to sites like pureintamcy etc. so it’s as much the sites he wont visit as it is the one he does. There are other barometers too that give away his mindset. I let this all go. It doesn’t cross the porn line we agreed to. These are things I leave to God alone.
Last edited on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 08:01 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Sat Mar 15th, 2008 06:09 pm |
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Continued:
All this time, I have been praying. Part of me hopes that just being away from it will help him. We got rid of the television network when our first child was born. We have TV and DVDs, but everything that comes into this house is carried in. The PCs are monitored at home and in our office. They would be anyway now that the children have access. We live in the country far away from bars and strip clubs; and even billboards, lol. Life is full of Godly friends and family outings. Yet, I know, the root will never die until he admits it before God. He has admitted the fruit it produces and relies on God to help him with it. But he makes the “every man desires ” excuse for his weakness. I know God can give a man the desire for a godly woman and help him despise the porn industry and all the filth it entails. And that is my prayer. It may take losing our marriage, (and most likely he will lose his business when he is given his freedom again,) before he learns to the filth that he finds desirable.
That day is coming. Maybe before then he will allow God to do the work. Maybe he will see a friend go through it? Who knows? When the time comes, I love him enough to do what is best for him, and I have enough self-respect now to know what I can tolerate with God’s help. But right now, we are both doing what we feel is God’s will and are putting the children first.
Please tell me that your husband does not teach, or hold any role of leadership in your church. This is not a role that someone whose heart and mind are so corrupted should be in.
He does not have any leadership position in the church. If he had, he would have stepped down. He has high respect for leadership and his expectations for men in those positions are ones that almost no man meets. Our Pastor is one of our best friends. Two years ago when I found the porn on his PC he said he would go to the pastor. (We had changed churches since the previous discovery.) I don’t think he ever went to him. Last I asked him, he hasn’t. But I was with our pastor the week after I found the porn, (it was hard core,) and I broke down. He loves my husband and his reaction was very Godly and loving. But we both believe it must be my husband going to him and not the other way around. Until then the prayer support I feel is comforting and I know if he ever acts out again, or becomes ready to deal with the desires, we have someone to go to.
Things I have to accept and have learned:
I am not my husband’s spiritual leader. I am here to help, but I can not lead in matters of the heart.
Godly submission and love have more power than the things of the world. I need to be careful.
I can set personal boundaries, though I am not sure exactly where the line should be. I need to seek God and Biblical understanding if I want those boundaries to have a positive result.
My life and purpose here is beyond my own selfish needs and desires. I don’t have to accept abuse, but I out of love for others I can lay down my rights and suffer for others as long as the grace of God is there to do so.
I should not vent on message boards before the trigger effect has passed!!!!!!
I read:
What Is Not Okay In Bed
By Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus
And there were some things not mentioned, but I feel like we do fall under the guide lines. I can’t be sure what is going on in his head of course. But I want to assure you that I set a clear personal boundary that it will always be a twosome in every way and I will not accept a third person in any form including movies and pictures. I don’t want filthy talk. And I will not accept any physical abuse. That is where I drew the line. Kinky passion is ok, IN PRIVACY (though I have a very hard time because it is a trigger,) but I need and expect times of romantic passion too. I wish the past never happened, then those triggers wouldn’t be there. If I knew that root was gone, I think could enjoy kinky again and even look forward to these times.
His desire for public display when we are out of town and his desire I see of his; “risk taking” and the thrill of “the possibility of getting caught,” is what I need to deal with now. We have talked a little about this, but I haven’t set firm personal boundaries. I have just tried to avoid as much of it as possible. I can see it is time to deal with this.
I need to refuse to live one standard near home and another out of town. I shouldn’t have an “Out of town dress code.” I feel like I am compromising, being someone I don’t expect my friends to respect, because I don’t respect women who act that way. God sees all. I can compromise my standards for my husband, but I can’t compromise God’s standards. I need to know what they are and set the boundaries. I have to be careful not to be legalistic in this. Pray for me please.
There are some Bible verses that confuse me, but I will ask about those later.
Thank you all for your kind words. You really are helping me consider things I hadn’t thought of. Thank you for your prayers. I have an out of town trip coming up Monday. Please pray that I will be able to communicate to my husband the struggles I face on these trips. Pray that he will truly get it this time.
I will respond to the other post after a while. Thank you again.
(PS these posts were edited to add the italics in the quotes.)
Last edited on Sat Mar 15th, 2008 08:03 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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truthseeker
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Posted: Sun Mar 16th, 2008 01:29 am |
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Hi PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe,
I have prayed for the communication on your trip, and each of you and your marriage.
I think your responses to me were very gracious. As I reread my own comments, I was concerned that I might have been harsh, having become a bit synical and jaded. I have been on BG for nearly two years, and moderated for around 14 months, and I have seen a lot of men in denial, and a lot of women enabling. It would seem that your situation is not quite typical, as you have a fairly open-eyed view of it. If any of my tough love, smack in the face, whatever you want to call it, was not constructive, I ask your forgiveness.
Your second post reinforced to me the significance of purity in our lives, from what we put before our eyes, to what we do with our bodies. My heart shuddered again when you said that you didn't feel that you were up to professional standards, paraphrased. Because we are each unique creations of God, monogamy is essential, so there will be no points of comparison to breed dissatisfaction.
Lastly, my husband would like to share that adult parents divorcing can still be very devistating. His parents divorced after 30 years of marriage, when he was 26.
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Sun Mar 16th, 2008 09:15 am |
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Dear PS:
Something about your answers does not ring true with me.
You are all over the map between desperate and content.
You say you want to leave this man and look for another and are biding your time and you have come to view this as something sacrificial. And yet you insist that you guys love each other very much and are such good friends that you don't even fight.
Sounds to me like you should have had some huge fights. I don't see anything noble about having kept this all under wraps. It seems to me that you have gone to great lengths to preserve your self dignity and pride, including carefully constructing plausible reasons and santifications for all of your behavior. Your husband could be going to hell right before your very eyes and you aren't going to make any waves.
Ma'am, I will venture to say that your husband is a whoremonger and has been for many years and may or may not be involved in the open adultery, but still wants to see you play the part of the whore he so much loves to fulfill himself with.
Why bother calling yourself Please Stop - Its Killing Me when you would have been more accurate with: It's O.K. - I'll Be Fine?
I think your first post was much closer to the truth and that you are hurting greatly and are deeply confused. You need to draw very close to God and stop lying to yourself. You guy's lives are not great. At least not great in God eyes. His Light is trying to penetrate to help you, but you have to let it. Otherwise you will go on just like its been up until now.
God Bless You Sister,
Wilderness Voice
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Mon Mar 17th, 2008 02:18 pm |
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Dear PS:
Something about your answers does not ring true with me.
You are all over the map between desperate and content.[size=]
Dealing with a spouse with addiction has a way doing that. Content is not my word, it's yours. I am not content. Yes, there are mostly good times now; seven years after our arrangement was made. Too many good times and too much love to just blow it all off. Yet, we are still dealing with the effects of an addiction and the lack of trust and pain that it entails.
You say you want to leave this man and look for another and are biding your time
I already explained that my first post was a venting that was the result of a trigger. I want to be accepted for what I am, which is not a whore, and I hope to see that day in the future. I also said I hope my husband becomes the man who can do this. After all the pain of rejection of the real person that I am by the man I love, is it no wonder that when the pain is revisited that I console myself with the thought that someday this pain will end and I will be loved as the woman of God I I try to be. I know I have God's acceptance, but I think it is just natural to wish for the man you love so deeply to love you back the same way.
and you have come to view this as something sacrificial. And yet you insist that you guys love each other very much and are such good friends that you don't even fight.
Believe me, my flesh wants out. I do feel that I have to die to the flesh each day. I know I that have sacrificed much of my self respect. The pain of the past, and living with the consistent knowing that any day now, he could chose his addiction over his family and we will be in the throws of a separation and a divorce is not something I would wish on any woman. Yet I also know that things could be a lot worse and I cherish the good in our marriage. Even in the valleys God would have us count our blessings. It would be wrong for me to not have a thankful heart for the many blessings that our arrangement have provided for our family as a whole. Unfortunately I have days where my heart is in so much pain that I forget the blessings and live in the pain.
Sounds to me like you should have had some huge fights.
That reasoning sounds good but... That is totally unbiblical. See the fruit of Spirit and the fruit of the flesh.... Our fight is not agianst flesh and blood but against...
After mush praying and hubling myself before God, I have calmly said some harsh words to my husband in love after I knew God would have me say them. The moments are awesome. God always has me re-afirm the love for the sinner, but state plainly the atrocity of the sin and where it is leading. It is amazing how God operates. I walk away and I say, "God, thank you, because I would have handled this differently without you."
I don't see anything noble about having kept this all under wraps.
Was I claming nobility? I am sorry. If there is any good that my life has produced, it is all from the Lord. I am a sinner saved by grace. It is only by grace and the blessing of God that I have made it this far. If the person I was before I gave my life to God still had it's way I would of done one of two things, joined my husband in his sin in order to gain his full acceptance or tossed him out on his but to deal with this on his own and went on with my life. When the pain gets sever those temptations are still real. I DO know what matter of person I am in the flesh. Thank God I do not have to let that person reign, and that God has given me a better way by his Holy Spirit and Power. If there is any nobility to claim, it is that I, who am so undeserving, am by the mercy of God a the child of THE King. If there is anything in my life to boast about, I boast in the love and power of the Lord to help us through our trials.
It seems to me that you have gone to great lengths to preserve your self dignity
Self dignity, yes maybe.
It was totally lost to me at one point. I let the fact that my husband did not love me enough to sacrifice his lust and stay true to our marriage tell me that I was not worthy of any love and faithfulness. The lies the enemy ran through my head and my heart... My dignity was completely destroyed. I spared my own life only because I thought it was best for my children, an even with that I had doubts. I was in a free fall.
But I soon did what I had been doing most of my life, even as a child when my mother left our family. I cried out to the Lord for help. He heard my cries and HE told me I WAS worth the breath I breathe. HE reminded me that He accepted me and not to base my worth on those who rejected me.
and pride,
I deal with pride everyday. Don't you? You know what. Before my post here could count the people who knew about my struggles, losses, and victories on my finger tips. They are my closest friends. They know my life apears fine but is messed up. (Come to think of it, even you do not know who I am. I am here for help because I need it. Maybe after seven years of at least some healing, I shouldn't really be looking here for some more?. I just needed some one to vent to that day. Should I have just picked up my cross and went on with out giving my flesh that libberty? Maybe that gave room for pride? Let me pray this through and I will get back to you.)
including carefully constructing plausible reasons and sanctifications for all of your behavior.
God himself has shown me my children are reason enough for my behavior.
Your husband could be going to hell right before your very eyes and you aren't going to make any waves.
You are mistaken. Just because we did not fight that day doesn't mean waves weren't made... I quietly, after much prayer, told him I would not accept his acting out and insisted on marriage counseling and the security of knowing that I was not exposing myself or our children to a man who was actively participating in filth. (More on this below.)
Ma'am, I will venture to say that your husband is a whoremonger and has been for many years and may or may not be involved in the open adultery, but still wants to see you play the part of the whore he so much loves to fulfill himself with.
I agree. His desire is still there. He has NOT asked me to sleep with others, so the "wants to see you play the part" has gone to a point of being emotionally painful and spiritually uncomfortable, but I don't think he wants me to BE a whore. I do see your point though.
I appreciate your earlier posts, and I hadn't yet taken the time to tell you that they really hit home. I was, and still am, meditating on them and Ephesians. I feel God used them to speak to me about this area and I am waiting on clear direction on how to communicate what I feel with my husband. Thank you for posting it. I covet your prayers concerning the matter. I promise you and God, that I will not let this leave my heart until I know exactly what I should do and have purposed in my heart to follow through.
Why bother calling yourself Please Stop - Its Killing Me when you would have been more accurate with: It's O.K. - I'll Be Fine?
I registered here with that name here two years ago when I found some videos on his PC. And I think I made it clear that "fine" does not discribe me. I think of that verse, I am beaten but...
I think your first post was much closer to the truth and that you are hurting greatly and are deeply confused.
Yes. I was responding to the darkness in this valley. It IS very confusing. I have had council from the two extremes of, "He's you husband and your place is to lay down your cross submit to it all and like Sarah call him lord, then God will be faithful in the end," to "Adultery has nullified all your responsibility, God does not expect anything further from you, leave and get on with your life."
You need to draw very close to God and stop lying to yourself.
You all have helped me ask myself questions. I could not get through this with out God. God is very near to me. But, you are right, I need to be nearer.
You guy's lives are not great. At least not great in God eyes. His Light is trying to penetrate to help you, but you have to let it. Otherwise you will go on just like its been up until now.
You are right, it is not great. Did I say it was great? I thought it was do able, but I gave up the hope for great a long time ago. Can any of us say our lives are great?
We have been blessed with good health, finances, obedient children, good Godly friends, and many other blessing that others desire; but there is still a trial, a valley, in our lives. Will valleys cease to exist if we fight and separate? Can you be sure we are not better off where we stand? Just what would you have us do? Seriously, I am all ears.
But I ask you this, can you make me promises that if I follow your view of what I should do, that our resulting life WILL be great, or even better than it is? Can you promise that it will "save" my husband and not bring devastating harm to my children? Can you know clearly that this arragement is not God's will? At least my husband is in church and not given over to acting out a sin that can lead to the road Ted Bundy took. Am I being his helpmeet as God would have to be? Sure my deepest flesh looks for a day when I can leave my husband to his own divices. When I think God tells me to do that, I pray that I am acting in the Spirit and not the flesh. But I don't think God is telling me to do that now. I'll seek God more on it.
Please give me sometime to work through this:
he, "wants to see you play the part of the whore he so much loves to fulfill himself with,"
before I go on to the next "level" of discovery and pain, ok? I am pleading for mercy here. Don't put more on me than I can bear at one time.
Crud...
I have been dealing with this for so many years. God help me! You have blessed me with so much, I hate to be ungrateful for what I have, but I want a little more... forgive me. Help me make it through this trip today and tomorrow. Help me to pick up my cross today. Guide my steps; help me walk in your love for those around me. Let my life make a difference, especially those of my children and husband, or relieve me from it.
****
God just said to me, "Did I promise you a rose garden? Yes, and you will get one when you get home." (I understand that to be home with the Lord.)
This self pity has gotten me no where. Forgive me Lord.
I came here for pity as much as I did help, maybe even more so. I ask your all’s forgiveness.
I am going to pack for my trip. I don't know if I will post again when I get back.
God bless you all.
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mexiang
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 06:04 am |
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you will never satisfy him ,because he make you become the womman in his fantasy.
he was a sex addiction,me too.but i have accept this fact i am a addiciton.this spent me 14 years make me realize it.i regret i become the addiction.but ,it's too late.every day i strive for it. it 's a man's battle.i never feel this really world.my thoughts,my feeling ,it look like not be under my control.i strive for it every day.because you were not a sex addiction,so you will never know this pain.
overcome this is every difficulty.because everyone is not same,it's unique.usually,the 12-step program will affect the sex addicit less.one day ,they will return their behavior.
i am not a consult.my advice is look for a sonsult who have overcame the sex addiciton.first ,you should build a trust realationship.you should make him reconize his addicit.
Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 06:37 am by mexiang
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 03:56 pm |
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It has been a rocky week.
The trip was uncomfortable, because I know he was wanting me to do things in the auto while he was driving. I have explained to him more than once that I think his attention needs to stay more on the road. I told him in the past that I felt it was irresponsible to get too involved while he was driving since if something happened it could effect more than us, explaining that an accident might involve innocent others, and also chances us leaving our children parent less or us both in the hospital at the same time.
He has never had accident while driving because he really is a great driver, but... I see a weird change in him when things get real sensual, a drunken look... it scares me if he is driving. I also worry that others might see us, especialy children.
Still... the looks I get, the pressure I feel... the whole submissive wife pleasing her husband... the fear of not meeting his desires and the excuse it could form in his mind to find someone who will... Sometimes I compromise, and then I feel guilty afterward for my irresponsibility. Yet if I don't do what I know will please him, the guilt is just as bad.
He knows how I feel. He will even say things like, "I have been such a good boy so far," or "I was a good boy all the way here." Then he gives me that smile that melts my heart. But, it's like he is expressing... "Let's compromise... You have your way part of the time, then it's my turn." So I find myself thinking, ok, I’ll go so far... not get too involved. Sometimes he's happy with that little bit, and sometimes it just frustrates him and I sense he gets bitter.
Because I have found it hard to bring up, yet again, the subject of my personal boundaries, yesterday I wrote him a letter explaining what was on my heart. (He had been to e-bay shopping in the worst categories again, after I had asked him not to shop for me there. I found on his PC that he had been there again twice last week. This spurred me on to get this letter over with.) I wrote it in a letter because everything in me told me he was going to say he forgot we had that conversation we had, (almost exactly a year ago,) until I reminded him of it.
I studied Ephesians 4 and 5 and prayed and prayed before I wrote the letter.
Can you guess what happened when he read the letter?
At first he was really mad, so he said he was too upset to talk. Then when he calmed down, (which again, is why we never fight,) we talked about it. He said his first reaction was that I was being self-righteous and judgmental. He said I shouldn't have written the letter, that I should have just come to him. I knew that what I needed to say would require a "down" time for him to pray about his response to me. I was hoping writing the letter would give him that time, as well as make things more "memorable." As soon as I gave him the letter I stared fervently praying that God would open his heart to see I wasn't trying to be mean, and that he would at least see, (if not agree too,) my point of view.
The talk went ok. He actually just calmly listened and as usual- didn't say much himself. He did say... He had forgotten about my request that he not shop clothing and especially for "intimate" items for me. He remembered just then, that yes we did have that conversation, but he was getting old and he forgotten. Also he only clicked on "one" item he felt he shouldn't have.
Ok... The man is in his forties... the last time we had this conversation was 12 months ago... and it was especially concerning e-bay, which he knows doesn’t trigger the PC porn warnings. He has a REALLY big screen and the thumbnail photos in the e-bay listing are plenty big and clear in my opinion, (wallet size.) I don't feel he should have clicked on ANY of them.
The one he "knew" was wrong was a totally topples photo of a big busted woman that had "nipple pasties" (stickers,) for sale. But I should not be upset because it was only one. The rest had items he was considering for me... (most of them cup less and thong type. ) He tries to imply that he wasn't there to see them women for himself, but for he was there to buy me a gift. He said if he saw something to buy, he was going to ask me first before he bought it. He still claims his innocence, except for the forgetting part. He still sees nothing wrong with him being in that section of e-bay except for the fact that I had asked him not to be, and he forgot.
Ok... maybe the pictures do nothing for this man. After all, he had in the past gone to hard porn video, strippers, and prostitutes. Maybe in his eyes he is telling the truth, there is nothing erotic there to him. Maybe he isn't even interested in photos of nearly 100% naked women in erotic posses, and shopping with just me in mind does not bother his conscience before God.
Could it be, that all this SA education and your guys' testimonies has me confused thinking your problems are his still his problem and I am over reacting?
I am judging his heart and intentions, which is something I can not prove. And he is using this against me. Maybe he is right on that account.
See, because it has been two years since I have found evidence of "out right porn" in the form of videos, he sees this all as MY problem. I am not getting over what happened years ago... I refuse to even try to trust him... and I am insecure. So he is freely and lovingly tolerating my insecurities and mistrust.
He's ok, as long as it is my problems. They are problems I have, which I have freely admitted to him.
When I try to help him see that things like this e-bay stuff can be "tastes" that tempt him toward a downward spiral, he says it won't... because he doesn’t have a problem with temptation anymore.
He can be so convincing. No wonder he convinces himself. I find myself doubting my judgment on this.
In the letter I did accuse him of making excuses to satisfy his flesh’s desire for immorality. I said I was praying for God to free him of this, and that I still love him. I also told him felt he was trying to dress me like “one of them.” He said that none of this is his intention and I am wrongly and self-righteously accusing him.
I have to go by what I feel and not by what I can prove. I am making judgments based on past actions and my feelings. Is this self-righteous?
Now that Wilderness Voice has basicaly acused me of the same self-rightousness, I am having serious doubts.
Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:11 pm by PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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PleaseStop_ItsKillingMe
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 04:07 pm |
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Dear Mexiang,
Thank you for you for sharing your own experience and advice.
I see you had to make a real effort to over come a language barrier. I want you to know I really appreciate that you made that effort, and I understand what you are saying.
I hope my husband can someday admit this problem, like you have.
I am praying for you. Keep on striving for purity. You are a brave man to face this problem head on. I admire you for that.
God bless you.
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 07:20 pm |
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Hi PSIKM,
I'm sorry to hear that it has been such a difficult week.
""I was a good boy all the way here." Then he gives me that smile
that melts my heart. But, it's like he is expressing... "Let's compromise... You have your way part of the time, then it's my turn."" This is manipulation!
Sexual intimacy is not intended to be like a treat one gives to a puppy for behaving. It is intended to be the deepest mutual physical expression of a husband's and wife's love. It still sounds to me like he is a lot more focused on what he will get than what he will give. That is not to say that there is never give and take, but it sounds like he is taking more than giving, to me, from what you have shared so far.
A letter is an excellent tool for communication when it is difficult to talk about something, and/or the matter is so complex that rabbit trails in a conversation could cause something important to be overlooked. Also, as you noted, it is good for allowing processing time.
I haven't shopped for lingerie on Ebay, but it is hardly necessary to have each item modeled, when setting it on a nice background would do, or possibly putting it on a manequin. Would he think it is okay to go shop at Victoria's Secret if they regularly had live models, instead of racks of items on hangers? There is no excuse for him to be looking at pictures that include any more flesh than would be seen in a modest one-piece swim suit, and I can't think of any reason that he should be looking at other women in swimsuits, for that matter. His eyes are supposed to be for you. What he sees in the course of daily life, and what he chooses to put before his eyes, or dwell on when it crosses his path, are two different things. He may be so desensitized to bare flesh that it doesn't do much for him under ordinary circumstances, which may be why he persists in trying to get you to "spice things up." Perhaps it is time to tell him that if any more lingerie is going to come in to the house, you will be the one to purchase it.
You are not over-reacting.
A. He made an agreement, and "forgot" about it.
B. Agreement or no agreement, he has no business there, period.
You are not judging his heart and intentions, but his actions, at least in terms of what he was looking at on Ebay.
In terms of what he wants you to do to "please" him, what are you supposed to think of his motivations, considering his history? When it comes right down to it, on the most rudimentary level, physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional intimacy, which coalesce in love-making, has absolutely nothing to do with any lingerie, props, etc., but only on your attention to interacting lovingly with one another. In my personal, unprofessional opinion, he should practice doing just that for at least a year before even considering whether or not to re-introduce any extras.
I cannot state an absolute proportion of years to heal compared with years lied to, cheated on, etc, as it is different for each couple, but two years is not that long compared to how long he was active in addiction, and he has not completely ceased the behaviors that cause emotional connections for you. It is self-centered of him to say that it shouldn't be a problem for you, because he isn't thinking what you are feeling. That his pursuits hurt you should be all the reason he needs to keep intimacy to simplicity itself. "I love you. You are beautiful and desireable, without any additions to your God-given form. You are so special to me, and I will do anything necessary to help you heal from the wounds I have inflicted."
We're not talking about a skinned knee here. We're talking about a deep wound that was life-threateningly infected, say like gangreen. That takes lots of treatment and time to heal, and will certainly leave a scar, which may even be tender for a while.
He needs to go beyond tolerating insecurity and mis-trust, and be proactive, an active participant in bringing healing.
"he doesn’t have a problem with temptation anymore." If this were true, his body would be six feet under, and his spirit would be fellowshipping with other departed believers.
BOLOGNA!!! If we are living human beings on this earth, we have a problem with temptation. I don't have my Bible handy, but what is that passage about he who thinks he stands taking heed, lest he fall? That is arrogant pride of the worst kind. (Okay, so there's no better kind.)
There is a perfectly logical connection between his past behavior and your feelings about behavior in which he seeks to engage you. It is not self-righteous to say, "You may not think of me as being like the dancers and prostitutes you were with, but when I wear/do these things, it makes me feel like I am dressing/acting like them, and it re-opens the wounds we both say we desire to heal." God gave us everything we need, in our natural state, to be arousing and pleasing to one another. He needs to re-learn that truth. You, and only you, are enough. When God created Adam and Eve, he said that they were very good. He told them that the two of them would be one flesh, and did not list anything extra that was needed to enhance that union. To put it bluntly, if your husband thinks "plain ol' sex" is boring, then his quibble is not with you, but with his Creator.
TruthSeeker
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 08:33 pm |
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Dear PSIKM:
That's not exactly what I was trying to convey to you. I was attempting to get you to see that your husband has been leading you both into unholiness and that you have found spiritual rationalizations for much of it. I think most of your feelings of guilt and apprehension have a real basis and the attempt to dismiss it lies in unreality. This man has lived with wickedness in his heart so long he is used to it. That's why it doesn't bother him to manipulate you and your emotions and keep unspoken threats at or near the surface.
Anyway, my wife and I talk about most everything on the board (that we read) and she told me to tell you to pray something with as much sincerity as you can. Pray that God will let you see all of this through His Eyes. This has helped us so much in the past, not only with our own sins but in dealing with troubles and troubled souls. Sometimes I let myself imagine I'm looking down at myself or others and ask God, what would you see? What do you see God? This does not make anything of us at all. It should be asked in humility, that He might mercifully grant us the favor to see and see correctly.
This can be very painful, but also very healing, and very enlightening. He told us He would give us whatsoever we ask (except those things which we would just consume upon our own lust). Ask in all sincerity to see what He sees and be willing to believe it. Ask also for courage to face the truth and the wisdom what to do about it. (Which can sometimes be stepping back and not interferring with God's work in someone else's life - i.e. letting them hit bottom) Nevertheless, with sight cometh understanding. You can't see anything in the dark and like the bible says: vain imaginations darken the foolish heart. Honest examination in the light has the opposite effect.
In Christ:
WV
Last edited on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 08:40 pm by Wilderness Voice
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Journey
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Posted: Fri Mar 28th, 2008 10:31 pm |
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I echo what truthseeker and WV have said, alot of wisdom there.
Prayers for you, PSIKM, I know your situation is not easy at all. But you are precious to God and worth your husbands unconditional love and respect, (whether he ever gives you that or not) and submissively and lovingly communicating your desire, as it sounds you have done, is a very right and beautiful thing to do. I pray the Spirit to work in your h's heart and to give you strength as well.
Love, Journey
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