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truthseeker
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 02:25 am |
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Hi bigj714,
I don't remember which meeting you were considering, but please do not let one person's/group's dogma keep you in bondage. If it is Celebrate Recovery, that is a Bible-based program. If it is another group, they all speak of a higher power, where you may insert Jesus, so you can keep your heart and mind focused on Jesus either way.
If all we need is Scripture, then why do we do anything other than read it at church? Why do we sing songs that are not only Scripture set to music? Why is it a sermon instead of only Bible reading? Why are there Sunday school lessons, recordings of sermons, etc.? Yes, you want to be discerning about what you put in your mind, but, in my opinion, the Bible is the foundation of revealed truth, and that which does not conflict with it may build upon it, not adding to, but illuminating its application to our struggles.
Have you had any success researching TMJ?
TruthSeeker
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bigj714
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 02:57 am |
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i heard alot of criticism from dave hunt, whose opinion i value, but im not sure he understands. they say that knowing the truth shall set you free and that there should be no need for psychology based programs. i dont know what to think, i dont want to make anymore mistakes, but there just isnt the support for people with habitual sins in churhes ive attended. seems some teachers attack the idea of labeling yourself and addict, but obviously some of us have real sin issues that need extra support. the church doesnt seem to reallly help in this, so where are we to go? as far as the tmj thing, im still having a constant headache. ive researched it and it seems to be one of the most misunderstood chronic pain condtitions there is. it fallls between the cracks of the medical and dental disciplines, so insurance wont cover it and generally if your advanced in the disease the prognosis is not good. however i did find a doctor that im going to see next week, and i sold some stuff on ebay to cover it. so Lord willing i might find some help, i hope.thanks for your prayers.
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arvin
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 09:48 am |
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IMHO, anything that helps us break free of addiction, as long as its not a sin itself, is ok.
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 11:01 am |
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bigj714 wrote: i didnt end up going to the meeting. i heard this long winded deal about how the steps meeting are unbiblical, really bashed the whole thing calling it ungodly counsel and how everything we need is in the bible.
That hasn't been my experience, as I try to recount above. For me, the 12-step program and secular psychotherapy have been a central part of a journey toward both personal wholeness and Christ.
It's certainly a personal choice, of course, and if what you are doing now is working for you, then there's no reason to try something new. If what you're currently doing isn't completely succeeding, though, then I hope you'll have the courage and imagination to look actively for additional sources of support and to use them, instead of staying stuck in the same style of failure for 30 years like I did.
Tim M.
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guitarist63
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Posted: Sun Nov 4th, 2007 06:11 pm |
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BigJ714, have continued praying for your headaches.
Is your jaw in a spasm during the day after the nights or can you relax it at all?
If you read the Bible, you can find plenty of verses to give you a spirit of condemnation. The devil used scripture, as you know, to tempt Christ and he'll use it in a negative way to keep us away from God's love, grace and forgiveness.
Seek Him and He will come to you. You are not such a bad sinner that He can't save you. Read the parable of the two debtors.
Last edited on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 10:35 pm by guitarist63
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Mon Nov 5th, 2007 01:43 am |
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BJ714:
The truth will make you free. But truth is truth whether it is found directly in the Bible or not. And it will do no good to just read, observe, or repeat the truth. We must believe it and comprehend it for it to do its wonderful work. This may be the truth about why we make the choices we do. It may be the truth about what our real motives are behind the choice to sin. It may be the truth about thinking processes we have that are not healthy. It may be the truth about choices we made when we were younger. There is much truth to learn and much truth that will have a direct bearing on freeing us from the prisons we are shut into.
The Scriptures will often reveal these truths, but if our minds are not in a state where we can actually see and hear what they are talking about and how it applies to our inner man, then reading them will do no good. Often time it takes the guidance of a good leader, a compassionate friend, or a successful group to help us get to the point where truth begins to penetrate the fog that covers why we do the things we do.
When we are in bondage to sin, often the only reason we see that it has a hold is a powerful drive based on a the pleasure to be gained from indulging. We try to resist the temptation that the thought of deriving such pleasure brings, and miss the underlying motives that are making us choose to do it. All choice has a motive behind it. It is our own motive. These are the reasons that we wish to continue in the wrong path and keep going back. They are often hidden to our eyes, because to uncover these reasons causes great pain and shame to the soul. Often it is something we do not wish to believe about ourselves. But when we do see it and believe it, its power over us is broken. It is this that can be taken to the altar of God and accepted. This is the truth that will set free. This is the truth that will annihilate temptation and render it utterly ineffective. And once freedom actually takes hold, and total victory is won, a great joy breaks forth in the soul for that which was once insurmountable, is now as nothing. I know this, I have been free from these sins for 5+ years (I actually don’t remember the date of the last time, only the circumstances). I do not live day-to-day battling temptation, it no longer has the hopeless, magnetic power, and in fact, is often never there at all. Sometimes I feel like dancing and shouting hallelujahs because I remember the horrible hell in my mind and body and cannot believe that I breathe the air of a completely free man. I love my Saviour for this great grace He has bestowed upon me and I mean every word of this literally. This is not some kind of wishful mantra that does not reflect reality.
The Scriptures helped me greatly, but only because they became alive by the Spirit of God lighting them up to me and graciously causing understanding to arise in my mind. A mind that had been so filled with lust and filth and putrid degradation. I had read them before, and they had no power because I had so many things blocking the Spirit from moving within my being. They did nothing to help me, they were not alive.
I use a lot of Scripture when I write, because it was those very Scriptures that began leaping out at me, pointing out my faults deeper and deeper, in such a way that I began to understand the wicked and sinful motives behind the lust. The unbelief and doubt and rebellion and pride and disunity. This was the truth that made me free. The truth about myself.
Jesus, the Apostles, and the Prophets often spoke in parables and mysteries and yet left these wondrous records for our own good. So to wish that everything is always made perfectly plain, or turned into a tidy package that can be digested in one sitting, is quite impossible. We all have things revealed to us a piece at a time. Whether it be in the Bible or through a meeting or a consultation or just by living our lives and patterns and examples become apparent. God can and does use many different methods.
We should seek God diligently in our hearts. To find Him and Love Him. If we keep ourselves centered on Him, He will bring those things, lessons, people, help, everything we need into our lives. He has not forgotten you and knows exactly where you are at. He knows the great pain you suffer and knows the way out. He has people that he has worked upon that know the way out.
One of the reasons that the churches cannot help, is that a majority of the people in the church are in the same position you are. They are also in bondage to sexual sin and do not know how to get out of it because the do not know the way. They haven’t found the way yet themselves. It does not mean that they can’t encourage you if they’re headed in the same direction up, but they cannot actually show you the way because they haven’t yet arrived there themselves. You need to seek out people, groups, counselors, leaders, who have been down this road and have found freedom in Christ Jesus. They can point you to the exit door. It is almost guaranteed to be painful, but not more so than the Pain that Sin causes! Humble yourself and trust God. He will lead you out and it may be that a modern Moses or a Good Samaritan or a beloved Physician will be sent by Him to help. God is good. The devil and his sinful nature are evil.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Wilderness Voice
Even though I did not go through their program, I personally recommend Pure Life Ministries. It wasn’t until a few years of victory had passed until my wife and I ran across the work of Steve and Kathy Gallagher (of Pure Life). We have read most of their books and materials and listen to the sermons of the ministry which are available on the web. They have wonderful testimonies and many men who were vile, terrible, despicable sinners (as was I) who have been set free by the truth and are walking in total victory. Miracles do happen and changing from darkness to light is a true miracle of God.
Examine the fruit: look for help from those who walk in goodness, righteousness, and truth:
Eph.5
[1] Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[7] Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
[8] For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
[9] (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth)
Last edited on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 01:48 am by Wilderness Voice
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shedlight
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Posted: Mon Nov 5th, 2007 03:11 am |
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Wilderness Voice,
I echo your statements. I also found out that it is not the truth you know but the truth you understand that sets you free.
But, how can we understand something that we dont know? Could a cave man use a book unless he was taught how to read?
In order to teach how to read to the caveman you would have to teach him the language of the book first. That book is the Bible and its language is its gift.
See...the Truth has always been there...we have heard some of it before, but we didn't take the time to get to know the Author.
My pastor once said:
If I gave you a brand new car and parked it outside for you, but you didn't know it, then you would leave the place and walk right pass it. It would be of no use to you.
The gift was true and was yours but you didn't know it.
Yes.... it is the same way with the promises of God.... They are there but most of us do not know them and once they are told to us they are powerless to us because we still don't understand them.
In order to start understanding them you are going to have to dedicate your life completely to God and follow Him in everything you do. You are going to have to hang out with Dad and surrender yourself to Him. Not just Pornography but your whole heart.
He is after your heart.
Pornography or sexual lust is nothing to the Majesty of the Creator of the heavens and the earth. He will deliver you from it but before He does...He wants you. Not because He is arrogant but because He loves you.
He Loves you more that you will ever imagine. The Bible says:
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13 NKJV)
Our Lord has already delivered us from every single bondage. Let's hang out with Dad daily so He can show us and please brothers and sisters:
Let's not just be hearers of the Word but doers of the Word. Let's do His will. Let's fantasize about His Kingdom
It's going to take faith and faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God..
Lets give it all to Him...Yes...our heart and time is His.
I would like to pray for anybody right now that would like to surrender it all to Jesus:
Let's Pray Together:
Dear Lord,
I want to re-dedicate my life to you right now. I know that I am lost without you. I am powerless without you. You are my strength and my comfort. You are my joy and happiness. I want to be yours, I want to dwell in your presence. You and only You are my Lord. I ask you to forgive me of my sins and to redeem me from the penalty of my sins.
I ask you to help me get closer to you oh Lord. Help me meditate in your presence day and night. I want to Love you Lord. Lead me oh Lord into righteousness and keep me from evil. Give me the strength I need to overcome temptation. Show me your truth Lord so that I can be set free from this bondage.
To you be the glory and the honor forever and ever ,
Amen
Last edited on Tue Nov 6th, 2007 02:07 pm by shedlight
____________________
There is hope and yes...the compulsive urge will stop. Go to http://www.JesusOvercame.com
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Seeking God
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Posted: Mon Nov 5th, 2007 05:10 am |
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Big j714,
The Bible clearly says, Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. (Jam 5:16)
In my opinion, it's not about joining something that will make me free, it's about obedience to confess, prayer and being accountable in righteousness. In Indonesia, we don't have any support groups for addictions, (there are several occasions where we send drugs addicts to mental hospital to be chained up-literally- to their bed  ) so you can consider thanking God for the existence of support groups in your area.
Re. the debate of whether the steps programs are necessary.... of it were just some human attempts...
My opinion is that, I agree that the bible is the foundational truth and the authority of our life. I also agree that the bible is sufficient for every good works and will keep us free. But to apply bible in our lives we also need people, to confess! to love, to encourage, to pray together... but the reality is ... there are few churches that are prepared to give support..
So, I don't think that support groups are wrong, if God used support groups to help you, then why not? once He used mud and smeared them to a man's eyes so he can see. how about the testimonies of people that have been healed by the means of those support groups? I think they will say that "What I know, is that though I was blind and now I see"
Of course on the exception if your support group tells you to throw out your bible and practice some hindoos-yoga-worshipping-polytheist-practice  . then I would have to disagree with that support group.
I thank God because I am in a church that have a high purity standard, and when I confess to my pastor, he become my accountability partner. And what a blessing it is!
I will pray so that you will find your bestfriend, your accountability partner, as David have Jonathan and Nathan, as Timothy have Paul, and so I pray so you will find your accountability partner(s).
Last edited on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 06:14 am by Seeking God
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TimM
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Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 03:04 am |
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WildernessVoice,
Thanks for a very thoughtful and welcoming post. I liked that a lot.
Tim M.
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guitarist63
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Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 09:59 pm |
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Thanks Wilderness for a very encouraging and warm post. I agree with all the points you make.
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