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Joel2:25
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Posted: Wed Oct 31st, 2007 09:21 pm |
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Hey all!  I used to post on a fairly regular basis here months ago. I find lately that I'm staying so busy it's difficult to stay "involved and in touch". Occasionally, something will either pull at the strings of my heart or cause me to grab a stepstool and head for my soapbox. The reply from another thread I have copied below is definitely both, and in NO WAY meant to be a personal attack on the author. I just want to share my views, as a wife, on what this means to me (personally), without hijacking another important thread.
"Often a man who turns to pictures as your hub has done doesn't think of himself as relating to real women. He wants an experience for himself without the hassles of dealing with a living, breathing person. Pictures are there just when he wants them, at the click of a remote control or a mouse, and they never say they're too tired or not in the mood. Masturbation is pretty boring without some external focus of attention, something concrete to sharpen the imagination. That may well be all your husband has in mind. I can't speak for him, but many men would run a mile if the women they're looking at were to jump through the screen into real life. Of course it's still wrong, but it's wrong in quite a different way from having an affair."
I agree with the idea that the man who turns to pictures doesn't think of himself as "relating" to real women. Totally agree. Unfortunately, there is the potential for a huge, HUGE problem in that concept. In my own instance, I'm dealing with a 50+ year old husband who was addicted/into/using porn from his teens and didn't get caught until Yours Truly busted him about 2-1/2 years ago. (Supposedly ... I have my doubts.) This translates into over 30 years of "fantasy" relationships even while having REAL relationships with REAL women. From what I'm seeing in hindsight, the fantasy relationships always won out. Problem is, after a guy spends 30 years lost in fantasy ... how in the world is he supposed to adapt to reality? You can't. At least not overnight. Fantasies don't expect you to be a man and mow the yard ... or pay the bills ... or be HONEST about much of anything. Really all a fantasy requires is imagination, pictures, and the ability to sit around for hours on end doing nothing. Meanwhile, this becomes such an ingrained habit the grass could get 10 feet tall and who cares? It isn't part of the fantasy is it? I'm flat out 100% convinced that living in the la-la land of fantasy girls teaches and enforces the concept of "laziness". Honestly, I love my husband to death (some days it's more of a temptation than others LOL) BUT ... I feel like I'm teaching a 7 year old how to be a "big boy", and it's an excruciatingly slow process.
I'm not real sure that pornography is really that different from having an affair. The bible says it's wrong, it's about lust (not about avoiding "boring" masturbation), and lust defiles the marriage bed. It's actually a lot easier to drag the girlfriends into the marriage bed when they're burned in your brain vs. being real.
It would have been about a thousand times easier for me to deal with ONE woman as a result of my husband having an affair than dealing with literally THOUSANDS of them burned in his consciousness, remembering the fantasy lives he had, etc. Frankly, I think an affair would have shaken him up anyway and shocked him into the realization he really IS a slightly overweight, balding 50+ year old man. Not a 25 year old with a six-pack, thick hair, perfectly white teeth, millions of dollars and someone Paris Hilton might REALLY date. 
So, we're actually making progress even though the above might sound rather dismal. It's just the fallout from this mess is going to take ages to clean up and work through.
As usual, all thoughts and opposing opinions are welcome!
Last edited on Wed Oct 31st, 2007 09:22 pm by Joel2:25
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Paulos
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Posted: Thu Nov 1st, 2007 03:11 pm |
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Dear Joel2:25,
The paragraph you quote in your post, for which I take responsibility, has its own context and target, namely to address the insecurity of a particular wife and redirect her from a false concern to a true one.
The challenge faced by a wife whose husband uses porn/masturb. is different from that of a wife whose husband commits adultery (= has an affair). A wife is meant to be the sole recipient of her husband's affections communicated sexually. If he commits adultery, his emotions are divided between two (or more) recipients, and his wife, left to cope with (a) rival(s), has only one of several shares in his affections. If she decides to work with him rather than to divorce him, her goal will be to gain his loyalty, his undivided devotion to her.
Porn/masturb. has a different impact on him, therefore on her. Masturbation is not a matter of having sex with the wrong person, but of triggering the orgasmic response system mechanically apart from a relationship to any person; porn is an enhancement of this basic experience. It involves no emotion (other than some excitement in the solitary process), no transfer of affection whatsoever. His use of pictures confirms a tendency in him to exercise his sexual faculty in an impersonal way. This introduces and deepens a split within his own personality between sex and love. Psychologists speak of this as a dis-integration of things that are meant to be integrated. The challenge for the wife in this case is to get her husband to re-integrate the two so that sex becomes a symbolic expression of his love for her, as it was meant to be, rather than an independent, impersonal exercise of one compartment of his dichotomous personality. Until he does that, she will sense that the sexual relation lacks depth, that he is using her body as one more masturbatory tool for his individual satisfaction rather than connecting and communicating with her emotionally. Her goal is not to secure his undivided loyalty, but to elicit his emotional involvement in union with his physical presence.
If he is promiscuous, she has his affection, but only when he happens to be with with her rather than with another. If he is autoerotic, she has his body but not his soul. To hark back to my definition above: adultery compromises the fact that "a wife is meant to be the sole recipient of her husband's affections communicated sexually." Porn/masturb. compromises the fact that "a wife is meant to be the sole recipient of her husband's affections communicated sexually." As I say in the bit you quote, the husband is wrong either way. We are comparing two sins, two different ways of declining from the biblical ideal of married chastity. Either way, he robs her of the gift of his total self.
There's a more specialized and sophisticated kind of pornography where the camera captures actual lovemaking by a couple genuinely in love. The voyeur appreciates this sort of material with sympathetic emotional involvement from a distance, in the same way that one might cry at the end of a sad film at the cinema. Obviously I wasn't talking about that. It's more complicated.
I think a clear understanding of exactly how each species of sin falls short of moral truth can be helpful in seeking the most effective solutions.
Last edited on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 04:43 pm by Paulos
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Seeking God
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Posted: Thu Nov 1st, 2007 04:51 pm |
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Hello,
I've heard about masturbation as...
Adultery... with yourself.
God created sex to be enjoyed between man and woman in marital covenant.
Outside of the marriage, sex are called adultery, and thus a sin.
When man masturbate, or self stimulate, or whatever... it is actually committing adultery with himself (which is not his wife).
Eventually, this man will love himself, he can only find satisfaction with himself, thus he do not need others (he thinks- but he is wrong), AND then comes the isolation... "hey! I don't need others to satisfy myself! I'd just do it by MYSELF"...
Scary isn't it?
Well, heard it from someone else, and 1cor6 also says that, when a man commit fornication, he sins agains his own body.... which makes a lot of sense to me.
When I commit fornication, my body becomes one to whoever having sex with me, either it was my ex (oh yes, even after those years, my body can still remember every single detail of it), or with myself (ew... but yes, it's true... sounds sick isn't it? my body remember the sensation when I stimulating myself..)
Ok, I'd guess I'd stop before I make anyone puked in front of their monitor.
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Lilly
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Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2008 11:08 am |
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Jesus says just lusting after someone is adultery, so what do u think porn is?
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