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truthseeker
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 12:45 pm |
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These thoughts are primarily written in light of some of Mark37's recent posts, but if I have made any others feel unwelcome, or responded to ungraciously, please accept them as being for you.
I have probably erred in being drawn in to any type of debate, though I would like to think that we could express some differing views respectfully. If I have failed to do so, I ask forgiveness. Once, however, a difference of opinion has been expressed, it need not be belabored, and certainly does not need to ever take on personal overtones or sarcasm. When a post has troubled me and I feel my response might seem critical, I usually PM the person, as respectfully as possible, though I try to keep crossing the gender boundary to a minimum. If you felt that I was criticizing you personally, where I was simply trying to give an explanation for closing the thread that was distressing some other members, I apologize. I do, however, consider it most disrespectful of you to continually post in direct contradiction to Mike's article on masturbation, though, to be sure, it is more his prerogative to say so, but having been asked to assist as a moderator, and a quite new one at that, I feel that it is a given that I should support his intent as best as I understand it. I cannot, by the way, ban any user, and am referring these posts to Mike directly for review, as any action on them on my part at this point, might not reflect impartiality.
I am certainly open to Mike's and Barb's correction on this point, but this is how I came by my decision to close the thread I felt was getting explicit. We have both partners and addicts on these forums, in a broad spectrum of points in recovery. I am a partner, and may not have the correct understanding of how accountability works, but I thought, in terms of a partner, which each should have apart from these forums, that it is supposed to be someone who is enough further down the road to recovery that hearing details of struggles would not end up being a trigger for him. As we have many who are in very early stages of recovery, I was concerned that the detail could take some addicts' minds in a direction they shouldn't go, and might trigger the fears and anxieties of partners. Please try to understand that I in no way intended to hinder an honest need to share, but to indicate that there are ways to accomplish that purpose that would be healthier for all on these forums. You will also note that I did not edit or delete your post.
I do not maintain a list of those for whom I pray. If I have written that I have prayed for someone, I have prayed at that point. Also, I often pray for people as I read threads, even when not responding to them. I would never make a decision to deliberately exclude someone from my prayers.
I hope that I reflect the administrators when I state that my greatest hope in these forums is to maintain a safe, nurturing atmosphere for all members, one that encourages all toward God's love in Jesus Christ. If I have failed to accomplish this in any way, I can only ask for forgiveness, and a courteous PM to let me know that I have offended.
In Christ,
TruthSeeker
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TimM
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 04:05 pm |
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truthseeker,
Thanks for opening a thread on this discussion.
To me, there are a couple different issues here. One is disagreement on issues like masturbation. There is often disagreement on boards. As long as that disagreement is respectful and is directed at recovery, I'd like to see us as open as possible to different opinions. That said, it's easy for people to get too involved in scoring debate points and in pushing their own perspective whether or not it is healthy for recovery. Locking threads in order to encourage a time-out for reflection is often necessary in order to keep discussions and recovery on track.
What bothers me about some of Mark37's posts is not intellectual disagreement. I've got nothing against Mark having and expressing opinions about masturbation that differ from those of other members. For me, porn is the heart of my addiction and masturbation is not (a pattern that differs from that of many other people), so there may even be parts of Mark's views that I can imagine working for some people in recovery. What bothers me about some of Mark's posts is my sense that he is deliberately taunting others by using explicit language and posting triggering links. I think this is disrespectful of others, and that it endangers the sobriety and recovery of some among us.
The common preamble read at the SAA and SLAA meetings I attend includes a phrase that says that we avoid explicit language and explicit sexual references, and that if any member feels that another is becoming too explicit, they may so signify by quietly raising their hand. We do this in order to make discussions safe for all of us.
I am quietly raising my hand.
I hope Mark will hear this message and will adjust his language and links to respect the recovery needs of others on this board.
Tim M.
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Tears4Us
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 07:28 pm |
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I agree with Tim. I was not trying to be disrespectful by replying to the thread on masturbation. I was just trying to show that there was some falsehoods in the article that was posted and why I thought it was sin.
I for one would not want my husband to come here and read some of the things posted by Mark37. Some of those things could serve to be a stumbling block for someone struggling. Or for a new Christian to say to their wife "Hey, look here are verses that say it is okay that I do that." even if it is deeply hurting her and their marriage.
I feel one can be open and honest without so many details.
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gaylon
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 10:10 pm |
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Tears4Us wrote: ...Some of those things could serve to be a stumbling block for someone struggling... I am weak, and have in the (not too distant) past had thoughts similar to Mark's ideas. His expression definitely got my thinking heading along those lines again, although I take full responsibility for those thoughts. I've observed that when someone gets very defensive of their opinions, or are overly aggressive in promoting them, it's usually because they doubt their position at some level, and are seeking to justify it. I've certainly done that more than once in my life ...
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Suzi
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 10:37 pm |
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Ahhh!
The voices of reason!!!
I am fairly new to THIS board... and it is a very unique place. First of all the gender issues, the sexual issues, and the Christian issues are all highly volatile. I believe it is a GOOD place to come for those struggling in the areas that are dealt with here.
But, I also fully believe that because of the highly sensitive nature of this place that the enemy (Satan) would be greatly pleased to continue to devour and destroy. Any place that God is at work (and I believe He is at work here), the enemy will seek to destroy any good or counterfeit any good. (Mark... I am NOT calling you Satan, OK???). I am simply pointing out that the enemy will always seek a way to destroy any message that would benefit God's mission.
I truly believe with all my heart that the grey areas are ALWAYS a matter of prayer and personal conviction, based on the maturity level of the believer and the individual circumstances. Debate is good only in so far as we share the WHY's behind our own personal beliefs. But it becomes dangerous when I become judgmental about someone else's personal interpretation of Scriptures. As Tears4Us tried to illustrate, throwing verses at a problem is not necessarily the best way to enter into a discussion of the TRUE heart of God.
Now, I have been a Christian for three decades... Did God's Word change in that time? Absolutely NOT!!! But, you know what? My ABILITY to receive, understand it, and APPLY it in my life has changed considerably!! When I go back and read my earlier journals, it is an encouragement to me that God could be so very patient with this very impatient and often erring heart!!! It gives me great hope for the future!!
So, yes, I think we can discuss, but let's also have grace toward others who differ from our thoughts. It appears that we (for the most part) believe that the Scriptures are the final authority. So, let's give some for those who are different levels of maturity and ability to receive the "SAME" message that we might get.
If nothing else, this should bring us all to our knees imploring God to truly reveal to us HIS perfect will for our OWN walk of faith.
And finally,
John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
If we truly practiced this verse, we would abhor becoming a stumbling block for another believer, even one whom we feel is in error. Why? Because of our loss of testimony to the unsaved world around us. Instead, we would pray for and encourage that believer. As Christ followers, someday we will face our Savior and give an account of many things, one of which will be the care we took of our fellow believers. Don't you agree? I personally would rather err on the side of being too careful, too conservatie, than on the side of pushing the "legal" envelope and perhaps bringing others down with me.
Just my thoughts....
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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guitarist63
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Posted: Mon Apr 9th, 2007 11:16 pm |
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I wish to apologize to Tears4Us for my response to one of her replies on the "General Discussion" page. I did not intend to give the impression that I had insinuated she did not have a mind or the skill of debate. This was not what I said or insinuated, even if it may have appeared to be so
Last edited on Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 07:49 pm by guitarist63
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guitarist63
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Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2007 10:34 pm |
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Last edited on Sun Mar 23rd, 2008 07:51 pm by guitarist63
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Steve
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Posted: Fri Apr 13th, 2007 01:36 pm |
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My only input is people who are merely here to "debate" and push their theological agenda typically bring a toxic tone to discussions.
My hope is such people would be banned.
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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geeky_student
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Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2007 05:30 am |
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I don't think that applies to any of us though... however, some of the spam users we get who post nasty comments seemed to be those "doctrine" people.
How should we reach out to them?
God bless!
in Him we trust, not ourselves or anyone/anything elseLast edited on Thu Apr 26th, 2007 05:30 am by geeky_student
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For God, for her, for my parents, for own good.
tip: when tempted, think of God, think of that special someone you love. 
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