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footballman215
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Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 07:49 pm |
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Hello all,
I confessed my problem with p and m determined to stop and I wanted to have healthy relationships with girls, especially the special woman I wanted to date and marry. I confessed to my friend in christian college who told me what I was doing wasn't wrong and referred me to his Christian mentor a year and a half ago but he told me that what I was doing was okay and healthy and encouraged me to enjoy fantasies while masturbating. He said this guy does pastoral counseling at his church and helped him in his relationship apparently. He used the philosophy that lust was a sin, not masturbation but loosely defined lust basically stating that unless youre heavily meditating on hardcore pornography youre not sinning, and since I was simply meditating on what I saw on TV/media and girls I saw in public because whatever did not involve the explicit sexual intercourse was okay. He even reinforced a behavior of "checking out" girls to see what kind of girl would suit me physically, advising me to check out a girl's breasts, rear end and other uncovered (or covered) features to see if that aspect of a woman is what God intended for me or what would suit me. Though I was already doing that subconsciously, it reinforced the behavior. I had reservations, but he said I needed to loosen my conservative mindset a litle so that I would have the courage to pursue and attract girls, because though Christian girls seem all prim and proper on the outside, being admired like that is what they really want. Being touched like that is what they really wanted. It all seemed kind of weird to me, but I have always been a kind of shy, quiet guy who never had a whole lot of luck with girls and this guy was pretty much the only guy I knew who was calling all the time willing to invest and help me.
He said that I needed to masturbate before dates or when I encountered a girl to help me loosen up and release any tension that I have. That would make me cool, calm, controlled, etc. He gave me certain sexual fantasies and scenarios with girls I met or wanted me to pursue, and told me to meditate on them because he said it would help me release and figure out what I wanted to do with them. IT's not lust as long as it does not involve actual sexual intercourse with someone I don't plan on being my spouse is what he kept telling me. If I believe it's my future wife, he encouraged me to have these fantasies. He said that I have to start thinking about that stuff so that I would be able to effectively take the lead in pursuing physical intimacy together. HE would want me to call him between 10 and 2 am at night so that he can give me these fantasies and wanted me to 'm' to them over the phone so that he would know that I wasn't b.s.-ing him.
None of this stuff seems to work. My friend and his gf are really physical but he and she both say that he is really wonderful and so helpful to them. This really came to a head with my last relationship I had with a very strong Christian girl. Though I tried to appear pure and sexually conservative, all of that reinforcement came out in other ways. It really pissed her off when I would stare at other girls, and though I told her I wasnt lusting per se, she still didnt buy it. What that guy kept on saying didnt really help me in the relationship department. She said she was embarrased to be around me in public, especially since she was a college student and there were so many girls on campus who wore revealing clothes.
Is what this guy saying is healthy? HAve any of you heard this before. HE is a Christian mentor and does pastoral counseling to lots of people, but it never seemed to jive with the Scriptures. He says he does this stuff all the time and his wife knows about it and believes in it. What do you all think?
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gaylon
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Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 11:28 pm |
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Without making a big statement, responding to you, I would just suggest to read the blazinggrace.org site. The scriptural positions are outlined there, as well as emotional issues addressed, etc. Given the above, in a word, to answer your question "is he right", my personal answer, as a recovering sex addict, would be "no"...
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Joel2:25
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 01:23 am |
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My jaw just hit the floor.
Let me ask you a couple of things ... are you still in a Christian college? And, what do YOU think?
I am just positive I'll be back here tomorrow to write a thesis. In the meantime, I AM praying for you! 
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CJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 03:57 am |
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footballman215,
Without knowing anything about the party who counseled you this way, I have to say that they are severely misguided. What this person said makes perfect sense - NOT! I'm in no place to judge his heart, but his words are absolutely, 100% wrong. He should be completely removed from ministry until he renounces this crap and shows signs of recovery in his life. With that 'power' as a counselor, he should know better. I sincerely pray God's conviction for this gentleman and his girlfriend as well as clarity for the parties he's accountable to so that he cannot do this to another single person. It is MY opinion that you should give the leadership of this ministry the contact information of your 'mentor' who could pass it along to the leadership of person's church or organization.This sickens me. 
OK, now that THAT'S off my chest,  let's look at things he's said.
He even reinforced a behavior of "checking out" girls to see what kind of girl would suit me physically
Read Matthew 5:28...there are a few different translations of it here:
http://bible.cc/matthew/5-28.htm
It's pretty clear that if a man looks at another woman with lust, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart. That's pretty simple. I don't mean to sound condescending, but Jesus is smart enough to know that the entertainment mediums of 2007 (media, internet, reading material) are just as much sin as the brothels of His time.
...because though Christian girls seem all prim and proper on the outside, being admired like that is what they really want.
Isn't it obvious that the devil is pushing on this so hard for a reason? Think about how the world has changed with something simple like fashion. 2000 years ago (and today in some places in the world), women are beaten for showing their face in public...let alone the near-porn covers of men's fitness magazines! I'm not a prude...I don't think we should walk around avoiding every possible breach of our mind's security because we're afraid of walking into an episode of 'People', but to overtly check women out sexually is just plain ludicrous. You said yourself it felt weird. That's the Holy Spirit saying 'Hey, meathead! Don't do that - it's a slippery slope!' I use those words because that's precisely what God used with me many a time in those same situations.
Dude, listen. There are a LOT of men here who struggle with sexual addiction of some sort. There are also a lot of women who have been hurt by those men. Ask ANY of the leadership about this, and I can guarantee you 100% of them would tell you the same thing. Don't be fooled by what this guy said - it's a LIE. Plain and simple.
What that guy kept on saying didnt really help me in the relationship department.
I think you just answered your own question. Someone I really respect spiritually told me this. "When God speaks to you [through someone or otherwise], the result of you folowing that advice will be blessing, not cursing." I would submit that pissing your girlfriend off was not blessing... 
Remember, if you didn't feel good about this guy's advice, that's God trying to break His Kingdom through to you - let it happen and DON'T take another word of this guy's advice...please. I hope I didn't come across too harsh, but it's hard enough to live a holy life in the day and age that we do...we certainly don't need help committing sin.
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footballman215
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 04:58 am |
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Joel,
I"m not in school anymore, I graduated in the summer, the same time I compltetly cut off communication with him, just not returning phone calls, etc. I used to talk to him for some more stuff regarding just life decisions outside the sexual realm, but I cut him off. I don't talk to him anymore cuz basically I came to the conclusion that what he was saying was bulls&#$. I tried to exapliain what I was feeling to him but he said that I needed to trust him because it would work. I was very vulnerable at that time because I wanted to stop p and m and I felt that I didn't have the answers, I needed an older man, older and wiser in the faith. His advice confused me, but I needed help and figured, even though I may disagree, he might know something that I don't. I told him it was all weird, but he chided me saying I was too uptight, that women go for confident guys, not ones that are uptight. I needed to loosen up
It was a HUGE mistake to listen to him, and now I"m paying the price. I came to him wanting to stop so bad. I didn't want my life to end in a train wreck and he assured me it wouldn't. I have a hard time trusting now because in a sense I felt betrayed. I wanted to learn how to have a healthy relationship with a woman and find and be the one God has for me. I wanted to learn how love a woman the right way, the way Christ loves the church since that has never really been modeled to me in my family with all the divorce and bad marriages, but I gave a year of my life to him and his nonsense, and now I am paying a steep price. I felt so alone, no one seem to care about my problem and he did although he didnt help.
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CJ
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 05:05 am |
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| Awesome. Good for you. Do you have someone you're accountable to currently? How are things going with your mind's battle?
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truthseeker
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 07:12 am |
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Hi FM,
I wonder if he really would have let you confirm that with his wife. It sounds like he had his own problem with thrills from others interacting with his fantasies by phone.
A christian girl is going to respect your purity. In my opinion, the most crucial things for enduring marriage include:
1. Both of you loving the Lord with all your hearts..etc.
2. Being able to pray/read/talk together.
3. Being able to laugh at yourselves, and generally find humor in life.
4. Having hobbies/activities that you enjoy doing together.
5. At risk of being too basic, "fight" fair. Never call names or put one another down. This obviously includes "you're stupid," but also includes "That's a stupid idea." Avoid superlative such as "always" or "never." Being gracious with your spouse's flaws helps them be gracious with yours. When it is necessary to speak some unpleasant truth in love, don't blindside each other. We use the signal "shields up" to indicate that we need to say something, but it may be difficult to hear, or we may need to provide clarification of meaning. A wise pastor once told me that "If the husband is truly loving the wife as Christ loved the church, submission becomes a non-issue." If you both are intent on putting the other's needs above your own, your own needs will, amazingly, be pretty well met. 1 Cor. 13:4-7 is not just a nice passage to read at weddings. It is a phenominal blueprint of Godly love.
6. If you want children, (both of you,) being of one mind on child-rearing/discipline issues. Kids can do vast damage to a marriage where they know that they can play mom and dad off against each other.
Do not worry about the physical relationship. Yes, read some good christian books about it, but remember that there is no time table for consumating marriage. You have a lifetime to get to know one another from head to toe, and if the above points are all shared in common, and trust and love have grown deep, you are unlikely to have difficulty with the physical. While it is, ideally, an incredible glimpse of what oneness is, and it is important not to permit the stresses of life to strangle the intimacy, emotional and physical, the frequency may well ebb and flow, so a foundation that is not largely consumed in the physical is essential.
I pray that God might fulfill your longing for a christian wife, but more so that you will find completeness in Him regardless of your marital status.
TruthSeeker
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captivated
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 12:55 pm |
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FM,
I agree with so much of what the others have said that I won't repeat the same things over again. I do want to encourage you though, that you seem to have discernment, so when everything in you is shouting "this is wrong" and you hear those internal sirens of the Holy Spirit going off, don't allow some smooth talker to convince you otherwise. Keep listening to Him...you do hear Him and He will be faithful to provide all that you need and use this experience to minister truth and blessing to others, as He's done with much of us and the painful trials we've been through! Keep asking Him...He will give you bread, not a stone because you are His son and your heart is for Him! Also, there is much on this site about men's groups, reading suggestions...AND we will pray for you, brother! You may be young, but your heart is on the right track and you will find freedom as you continue to seek His face for the answers!
Blessings to you in Jesus!
Captivated
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footballman215
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Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 03:16 pm |
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truth,
I never talked to his wife regarding that, I only spoke to her once when she answerd the phone when I was trying to reach him. He did say that there are things that he doesn't even tell his wife or share with her because it's unnecessary now that I think back on it. He said it's like that in all marriages, you don't share everything. But my sister in law said the same thing about my brother, there are things we dont know about each other. He said my secrets and stuff were safe with him and I didn't have to share them with anybody. I don't know what his wife REALLY believes about this stuff, I never talked to her, but now that I think about it it makes me wonder. I knew my friend and his gf did believe in that stuff though even though she was a girl.
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footballman215
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 02:39 am |
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| CJ, I meet with a counselor on Fri.
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:17 pm |
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Hi FM,
I cannot, of course, speak for my husband, but I believe, to the best of my honest introspection, that things I have deliberately not discussed with my H, including both before and after marriage, could be counted on one hand, and the one I had kept to myself for much of our marriage I talked with him about a couple of months ago, and was much relieved to have done so. That is not to say that we know every minute detail of time apart, him at work, me home with kids, (there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do instant replay,) but that any deliberate secret, on either part, hinders the oneness that God intends for marriage. If one cannot entrust ones innermost thoughts and feelings to someone, they are not a good choice for a spouse.
Just my two cents.
TruthSeeker
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CJ
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Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 03:25 pm |
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truth/fbman215 - I have to agree - I finally opened up to my wife about a couple of things about a month ago, too. The difference it has made has been really cool in our marraige -- definitely for me, knowing that I have zero secrets from her. Just my .02.
fbman, I'm glad you're seeing a counselor - accountability is a wonderful thing for us.
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