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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 08:09 am |
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Quick question - my husband is saying the fact that I have left for a brief period (basically to get his attention and encourage his repentance / remorse over his long standing porn addiction) is not scriptural. I have not been able to find a verse to back me up, although I know there is a principle there somewhere. All I can think of is from Prov 31 - "She will do him good and not evil..." It is for his good that I have forced the issue and for the good of my children that I have removed them from an ungodly environment.
BTW, he is actively seeking help now, but says that by leaving I have opened a new wound on top of the one that already existed. Any thoughts?
Thanks!!
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Joel2:25
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 04:13 pm |
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I think the whole area is muddy. Referencing 1 Corin. 7:10-11 : my personal opinion is you've not sinned by leaving (separating) in cases of adultery.
Does your husband truly realize pornography is the same as adultery? There is actually grounds for divorce there. I think that any wife that continues to stay (whether or not there are periods of separation) is exhibiting "Son of the Living God" grace and mercy to her husband.
You have my prayers.
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 05:43 pm |
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| Thanks so much! I think he realizes it, but admitting it is a whole other ballgame. He "does not believe in divorce", and for me to bring up the fact that adultery is biblical grounds for divorce just makes him mad. Divorce is not my desire, neither is continuing to live in a situation where the husband and dad is so steeped in sin he cannot function and fulfill his God-given roles. I truly believe that he is grasping for anything to hold onto to justify his behavior and it wouldn't matter if there were a verse commanding a wife to separate from her husband in such a situation. He would just find something else to nitpick. Thanks for the encouragement. It has been such a blessing to realize that I am not alone in this fight.
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truthseeker
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 05:53 pm |
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Hi WoundedWife,
My heart goes out to you. In your other post, you said that he said it didn't have to do with you. I cannot comment on the truth of this, only that I have read that others have felt this way. For some, there seems to be a disconnect between the acting out behavior and the relationship they have, or perceive they have, with their wives. If the masturbation results in release that he is not achieving with you, this may not be relevant, but a thorough physical may be a good idea, just to make sure their is no physical component. Otherwise, it sounds like there are very deep issues, probably from childhood, that will need to be worked through with a christian counsellor. Please tell me that the one who said porn has a place and you were making too much of it wasn't claiming to be a christian counsellor?
I think that Joel225 put it well. This is a time that it might be very beneficial to be apart, for fasting and prayer, as spoken of in 1 Cor. 7:5. (We will not bring up that he has not been fulfilling this in recent years.) Yes, this would not usually entail a geographic separation, but it could be applicable. A counsellor is probably best suited to advise about returning as you all work together. Commitment to, and some achievement of progress are necessary, in my oppinion, before returning, but then again, we never separated, so I am not speaking from personal experience. This will likely be a lengthy process, and I would guess that there could come a point sooner than you might expect where, in order to work together on it, you will need to be together for the daily routines. It is the "normal" that he needs to learn, or relearn, and that won't be possible by phone or in an office.
Praying for you both...
TruthSeeker
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mumof7
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:03 pm |
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Hi Woundedwife,
I wanted to reply straight away here although I want to get back to you with scriptural references...I think it is based around many principles and there is no straight clear 'thou shalt separate...' etc if you know what I mean but much there to defend your actions at this stage (your situation that you've previously described) ...yes it does make it harder for him but he seems to me (maybe Im wrong here) to be blame shifting somewhat, I realise it is difficult but he must bear fruit of his 'trying to do everything and if so he should not be pointing at you but feel so remorseful that he would do as the saying often read here goes'whatever it takes' this includes for sometime taking full responsibility. It is a consequence for his actions and he has to rebuild trust again, you left with concerns for your childrens environment and you are accountable to God as a mother also spoken of in Prov 31 (and throughout Proverbs too) as Im sure you are aware...You have said that you will not accept the behaviour in your home anymore especially since your son has come across some of the 'images'.
God doesnt explicitly say in the bible that a wife can separate when she is being bashed by her husband but I think most would agree that God as the loving and just God that He is would not expect a wife to stay in this situation. Many verses that give principles. Verses about our bodies and looking after them, responsibility as a mum, this is not what GOd ordained in a marriage...husband to love the wife as Christ love the church...with that love comes protection etc. Hope I'm making sense?!
So as you can see there are lots of principles but this has wounded you and his wound as he states are a consequence of his actions which was preceeded by your attempts to help. Im sorry but I think he should be more concerned with his offence against God and then you his wife...this has wounded you hence why you left. Sorry if I have misinterpreted but I think that unfortunately you need to tread with Gods wisdom! Wow, how overwhelming I know but He knows all things and Proverbs 3:5-6 is an encouragement here.
I do feel for the offending spouse but at certain times we have to look at the facts we have before us to make decisions based on those facts with Gods guidance rather than our emotions...this is detremental for our family including our husband and our home. I think it is good and important to try to show him through scriptures your concerns but in the end we are accountable to God for our actions not man. You could show him all the verses but his heart might not be open to it. It is tough trying to be the strong one as a wife and its exhausting.
My husband constantly pressures me to start again with no signs of change but I want to have a safe environment where I dont have to watch my back etc etc. It can be a bit of an emotional rollercoaster and we love and miss our husbands and want to see these changes but they have to be real and I have noticed time will tell...God will not just let things go and 'be sure your sins will find you out'. If he is truly walking and striving and doing all he can then it will be evident in many ways.
Do you remember the old hymn....O Happy Home, it is a beautiful hymn and this is His design for a godly home-what a wonderful blessing and promise. May God help us to know His ways not our own and may He guide you (and me for that matter!) in our speech and actions toward our husbands.
These are my thoughts on the information that I know from previous posts and my peronsal experience, I pray that it is helpful and encouraging help that is glorifying to God, sorry if Im wrong in my interpretations. ( sorry a little long)
Just another question on the side...is the move placing financial hardship on you? Does he live in your own mortgaged home?
Please keep well and Blessings
mumof7
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mumof7
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:07 pm |
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neither is continuing to live in a situation where the husband and dad is so steeped in sin he cannot function and fulfill his God-given roles. I truly believe that he is grasping for anything to hold onto to justify his behavior and it wouldn't matter if there were a verse commanding a wife to separate from her husband in such a situation. He would just find something else to nitpick.
I think you've hit the nail on the head so to speak!
Prayers for endurance to run the race setbefore us.
mumof7
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Steve
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:22 pm |
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Joel 2:25 really hit it on the head with her reply to you.
woundedwife wrote: I think he realizes it, but admitting it is a whole other ballgame. He "does not believe in divorce", and for me to bring up the fact that adultery is biblical grounds for divorce just makes him mad.
Well, as a guy in recovery who also works quite a bit with sex addicts and partners of sex addicts, he darn well needs to admit that he is committing adultery (It is unquestionably "adultery of the heart.") with his addictive behaviors.
If this fact "makes him mad," well then, it sounds like he has quite an opportunity to grow spiritually in this area. Pride and the illusion of control are the enemies of healing; Humility and brokeness (in Christ, of course) are the keys to freedom.
Thanks for reading my reply. Please be encouraged!
-Steve
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"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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Suzi
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:42 pm |
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Hmm... so he says:
... my husband is saying the fact that I have left for a brief period (basically to get his attention and encourage his repentance / remorse over his long standing porn addiction) is not scriptural.
Isn't it convenient for a Christian to point out how OTHERS are not being Scriptural....??
Ask him to justify HIS lifestyle Scripturally....
Just a brief point here in a very complicated situation.
Suzi
PS. PLEASE don't take this to mean I think you are wrong in insisting on a temporary separation, at the least. Just pointing out his errant thought processes.
Last edited on Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:43 pm by Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:44 pm |
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Hi Mum,
God bless you yet again for your vast wisdom! I am in the process of composing a letter in response to his last night blasting me for leaving as unscriptural, violating the leave and cleave principle, not allowing the family to work through its problems, etc., etc. I know many of the principles you mentined apply. How open he is to them, I have no idea. I guess all I can do is put them out there and pray that the Holy Spirit will work.
Yes, he is living in our mortgaged home and I am staying with my parents for the time being. He is about 2 hours' drive away. I have full access to our joint bank accounts, so there is no real financial strain for the time being.
I am confident that God is going to work this our for our good and His glory, but in my humanity, I want it done NOW!! I'm learning to lean on Him and rest on Him for His timing. I am so thankful for godly parents who have been so incredibly supportive and are constantly praying for both myself and my husband.
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:48 pm |
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Hi Truth Seeker,
Thanks so much for your response. No, thankfully the counselor who gave us such warped advice makes no claims to be a Christian. We had to see the employee counselor at my husband's place of work in order to get a referral to a Christian counselor if we wanted insurance to cover the counseling. That obviously did not happen, as she did not feel we needed a referral to a Christian counselor. That is one of the conditions I have put forward as a condition of my returning home - that he seek out a qualified Christian counselor (which he has done and is in the process of setting up an app't) and that we see a good Christian counselor together. I know this is going to take time, and I'm not by nature a patient person. God is working on me too through this.
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Suzi
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:49 pm |
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WW,
I am not a lawyer, but I urge you to contact one.
You may be putting yourself at risk of being charged with "abandonment". Laws vary by state, but I have read that if a wife leaves the home, instead of insisting that the erring husband leave, it may be a legal loophole for him.
Please check this out. He is not thinking clearly right now, and even if it seems like something he would NEVER do to you... well, it's a precaution you should take anyway, OK?
Just looking out for you, sister!
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:50 pm |
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Wow - very good point. Don't know why that didn't occur to me right off the bat
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 06:51 pm |
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| Thanks Suzi. We live in a no-fault divorce state, so I believe this would not apply. However, I will definitely check today and make sure about that. You're right - I guess I need to cover all the bases.
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woundedwife
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 07:00 pm |
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| Thanks Steve for your encouragement. He is so very proud - one of his main concerns is finding out from me who among our friends and family knows about this. I think for real repentence to occur, he's not going to care who knows, as long as he is right with his God and his wife, that is all that will matter. I really pray for that day to come!
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mumof7
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 07:04 pm |
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Hi Suzi an WW,
Laws are very different here in Australia but here if the husband refused to leave which was my case all 3 times! You can leave and then get an order for your husband to move out as you have the children etc. As I said this is quite possibly different in your country/state. There seems to me that there should be something like this as the husband can and does refuse to leave at times. Personally, for many reasons he should be the one to leave but will he do that if as you've said he doesnt think he is addicted or thought that he has committed adultery in his heart??
Having said all this, I am renting and my husband would not leave so he is still renting our previous property (this rental was only in his name and for other reasons decided it would be best for me to go even though much harder!) as our mortgaged home was in another state (we moved 3years ago) which we have just sold. So again situations are all different although principles are the same.
My husband has just started to become difficult with finances and like you have had access to his accounts.
Prayers for His wisdom and care for us all through these daily battles.
mumof7
Suzi wrote:
WW,
I am not a lawyer, but I urge you to contact one.
You may be putting yourself at risk of being charged with "abandonment". Laws vary by state, but I have read that if a wife leaves the home, instead of insisting that the erring husband leave, it may be a legal loophole for him.
Please check this out. He is not thinking clearly right now, and even if it seems like something he would NEVER do to you... well, it's a precaution you should take anyway, OK?
Just looking out for you, sister!
Suzi
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Steve
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Posted: Thu Mar 1st, 2007 07:29 pm |
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woundedwife wrote: Thanks Steve for your encouragement. He is so very proud - one of his main concerns is finding out from me who among our friends and family knows about this. I think for real repentence to occur, he's not going to care who knows, as long as he is right with his God and his wife, that is all that will matter. I really pray for that day to come!
Wounded Wife, again, I just want to state how sad and sorry I am for your situation.
Regarding your husband's concern about "who finds out" is something many wrestle with. Allow me to briefly explain: I have known men who struggle with this issue whose career would be highly in jeopardy if the news became public. Others, I have known, live in small towns where "gossip" would pretty much ruin a person's ability to have a normal life in such a community. In other instances, the concern that other family members (such as in-laws?) might spread the word in ways that would be detrimental to one's family.
Now having said all that, if your husband is concerned about being "found out" because he is so invested in having a phony posture of righteousness, well then, that obviously needs to change. One can not really commune with the Lord (let alone be a Christian) if they never "let go" and allow themselves to be humbled, broken, desperate, etc.
(For what it's worth, those are some of my thoughts regarding the matter in general. They may or may not pertain to your situation.)
And lastly, yes you are indeed correct. Your husband must have the mindset that says, "I will do whatever it takes to get free of this awful thing I'm ensnared to, for the sake of my God and my family." Anything less will likely be fruitless, in my opinion and experience.
As someone else stated in this thread, I do find it appalling that your husband played the "scripture card" regarding your decision to seperate, especially in view of his blatant sexual sin. I realize the matter of seperation and divorce are very, very complex and difficult and I offer you no trite advice as to what to do on that front, but boy, my blood just boils to read that he played that card on you.
Be encouraged and I give you my word to pray for you and your family this evening. You're on my list! 
-Steve
Last edited on Thu Mar 1st, 2007 07:30 pm by Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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woundedwife
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 05:26 am |
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| Thanks so much Steve! Your prayers are invaluable. This afternoon and evening there have been some very positive and encouraging signs, so I will continue to pray and wait on God to see what happens and if he can actually follow through. I guess his playing the "scripture card" is a perfect example of Jesus' admonition to be careful about pulling a splinter out of someone else's eye when you have a beam lodged in your own! Thanks again for sharing your wisdom!
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Steve
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 04:10 pm |
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Yes, the "speck and splinter" analogy came to mind as well as I thought about your situation.
Still, I'm confident and optimistic that your husband will see the light about what his addiction is doing to him. I'm a "recovery guy" myself, and I know the kind of hold this thing can have on a man. All I can say is, your marriage and family life will be so much better once he gets truly free.
-Steve
Last edited on Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 04:15 pm by Steve
____________________
"Isolation is bad for any man, but for the sexual addict it is fatal." -Russell Willingham
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