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HealingRain
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Posted: Mon Jul 31st, 2006 11:15 pm |
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This is all new to me. Though its been ongoing in my marriage for 10 years, I didn't know it. I always new something wasn't right.... and can not even count the amount of times I went to my husband and asked him to just open up to me. He has always been distant. We did have an issue with porn 6 years ago.. but he promised me the moon, and I accepted. I never again looked to see if he had kept that promise. I trusted him. I asked him back then to get help because I felt it might be to the "addiction" level.. but he swore that he had only indulged for a short period of time.
Here we are 6 years later. I sorta catch him at it. I did not walk in on him, but just knew.. and he confessed. Said he had only looked 3 times, because he was mad at me over something that had happened. We had a weekend of discussions, and making up... where he swore up and down that he was telling me the truth, all of it. I didn't believe him, so I waited till I he had no more "worry" that I was suspicios or concerned and began to look into things... and of course found stuff. When I confronted him, he finally admitted that he never stopped and that it had been going on our entire marriage. I finally have truth... a truth I hate. A truth that crushed me to my very core. I feel my entire existance was rocked. I am sure all of you know how I am feeling.
This was 2 weeks ago. Though I am in so much pain and anquish over the loss of my marriage.. or the marriage I thought I had... I am commited to working this out. I want to support my husband in his struggle to stop this. We have talked and talked... or I have talked and talked. He is open to most of it. He struggles to comfort me, which hurts me even more. I moved out of our room for a while but am back there now. I don't want him feeling abandoned, like I do. He does not reach for me, does not hold me if I cry. He won't show me his vulnerablity in this... he actually told me "I am afraid that if you knew how much I don't want you to leave, you will leave just to hurt me." And that was the end of that conversation, as he wouldn't go any further and I had to walk away for fear of breaking.
I am having trouble getting him to work on his self. He will discuss my pain, he will let me vent on him (to a point)... but he will not look into himself for reasons or explanations. He actually closes up on me. He gives me his answers, the ones he's had rehearsed for years... and thats it. I hate those answers. They are cold, uncaring, selfish, hurtful. He says that he didn't think it should affect me, didn't think it was infedility, thought it was just something for himself. He admits he was wrong in thinking that... but thats as far as it goes. I want him to explore the reasons behind all this... he wants me to leave him alone. To move on from this. I can't. I feel that if he doesn't explore this, find the real reasons behind all this, than we will just be back here again.... and next time, I won't be able to work things out.
I had him read some things online, things that explained how this is infidelity and that he did cheat on me.... and he swears he got it, finally. Though it was everything I had already said, somehow it finally made sense to him. He says his views, opinions and feelings have changed. I just don't know. Is it possible for them to change this quickly? Whats the likelyhood he is telling me the truth and not just telling me what I want to hear? How can I be sure? He did these things for so long, thought this way for so long, that its hard for me to accept that he can suddenly have a change of heart. I want to believe he has had a change of heart. I want to believe he has chosen me.
Could he possibly see things different now?
For those of you working on this issue... or have had success with this issue... how did you handle intamacy? When did you reconnect sexually with your husband? Should I keep us celebate while we work on this or make my self available to him? Not to be his porn, as I could and will never be that for him... but to be his faithful loving wife. I do still love him desperately, and still want that connection with him.
For me, I am keeping a journal. It helps me beyond words. Its easier for me sometimes to put it all there... brings order to the chaos I am feeling. I let him read this, as I don't want any secrets between us.. never have wanted that. I do not know his feelings on my entries, but I know he has read them and at least sees how much I am hurting.
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Joel2:25
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Posted: Tue Aug 1st, 2006 04:25 am |
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Hey hon, sorry you've came to such a place. But there is support here, which is good news! I understand your anguish, as I'm in the same place and have been for what seems like ages now. To just answer you honestly from my heart ... and my own hellish world (ha, don't we all know what that can be).
"I want to support my husband in his struggle to stop this. We have talked and talked... or I have talked and talked. He is open to most of it. He struggles to comfort me, which hurts me even more. I moved out of our room for a while but am back there now. I don't want him feeling abandoned, like I do. "
He is open to most of what? Listening to you talk or getting help? I should have moved out of our bed and stayed OUT until my husband cleaned up his act at the very first ... hindsight being 20/20 of course. I've been sleeping on the couch for a week now and I will not get back in that bed until his fantasies aren't sleeping between us anymore. While I understand your desire to support him, you walk a very fine line with an addict. He can and will manipulate you at this point until you don't know up from down. You know what? Sin inflincts pain. And it's his sin to own, not yours. You did nothing wrong, this baby is all his. Of course, you can walk alongside him but don't get too awfully wrapped up in helping him continue (which we do unintentionally with our maternal urges) or worrying about his delicate feelings.
"I am having trouble getting him to work on his self. He will discuss my pain, he will let me vent on him (to a point)... but he will not look into himself for reasons or explanations. He actually closes up on me. He gives me his answers, the ones he's had rehearsed for years... and thats it. I hate those answers. They are cold, uncaring, selfish, hurtful. He says that he didn't think it should affect me, didn't think it was infedility, thought it was just something for himself. He admits he was wrong in thinking that... but thats as far as it goes. I want him to explore the reasons behind all this... he wants me to leave him alone. To move on from this. I can't. I feel that if he doesn't explore this, find the real reasons behind all this, than we will just be back here again.... and next time, I won't be able to work things out.
I had him read some things online, things that explained how this is infidelity and that he did cheat on me.... and he swears he got it, finally. Though it was everything I had already said, somehow it finally made sense to him. He says his views, opinions and feelings have changed. I just don't know. Is it possible for them to change this quickly? Whats the likelyhood he is telling me the truth and not just telling me what I want to hear? How can I be sure? He did these things for so long, thought this way for so long, that its hard for me to accept that he can suddenly have a change of heart. I want to believe he has had a change of heart. I want to believe he has chosen me."
Among other things, I would recommend getting the book (the library is great) called Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson. Oh, this isn't a book you read openly in front of your husband. I'm not suggesting lowering yourself to playing games, but you may need to "create a crisis" here. Kinda' like a big KABOOM. Actually, exploring the reasons behind all this are wonderful, but in the short run he needs to STOP this behavior. And he needs a support group, he needs counseling, and he needs daily accountability with someone (not you) who will ask the tough questions. The likelihood he's had an overnight change? Slim to none. I'd say he's saying what you want to hear. See, you're doing the work, not him. You did the looking for the evidence, you are doing the talking, you are looking up the wesbsites for him to read ... see what I mean? Frankly, I would give him a time limit and say you do these things ... 1, 2, 3 .... OR I will do (fill in the blanks). Please be positive you choose an option you CAN do. Whether it be go to his family, to the church, leave, etc. You MUST absolutely do your OR choice if and when he fails to do his job. Otherwise, you will be totally neutralized. Do you know how sometimes parents tell their kids ... if you do that again, I'm gonna kick yo' butt!? And never do it? Notice how the kids just kinda' ignore it? Their parents have neutralized themselves by not following through on the threatened consequences (I don't advocate kicking your kid's butt NOR your husband's butt as much you might want to).
Much prayers and hugs going your way!
Last edited on Tue Aug 1st, 2006 04:25 am by Joel2:25
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justme
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Posted: Tue Aug 1st, 2006 04:58 am |
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Hi Healingrain,
I'm so sorry you have to be here, but what a blessing this website is--wish I had known about it when I first found out about my husband's addiction.
Joel is so right--the chances of your husband beating this by himself are slim to none. I had a pretty tough time getting my husband into counseling--he thought he could beat the addiction alone, too, but I pretty much insisted he get help and I'm sooo glad I did. He realizes now what denial he was in and would never tell somebody they can beat this alone. Unfortunately, addicts lie and are experts at telling their spouses what they want to hear--mine was. Either your husband really thinks he can beat the addiction by himself--and he's wrong--he can't, or he's telling you what you want to hear and intends to keep on looking at the porn but just be sneakier about it. I seriously doubt that he "gets it" about how bad porn is at this point, no matter what he's telling you.
The part about your husband not comforting you sounds really familiar. My husband was like that and it hurt so much. One thing he said was that he didn't understand how the person that hurt me could be the one that could comfort me. I explained that sometimes I just needed a hug--now he hugs me without me asking, but it took time for us to get here.
I'll be praying for you. I know how much this hurts and how scary it is. I wondered if my husband had ever loved me at all when I found out about all the porn. The Lord let me know that my husband did love me as much as he was capable of loving any woman, but that his heart was so filled with lust that there wasn't room for him to love me the way God wanted him to.
Be really careful about where you go for counseling. There's no way I'd go to a secular counselor after the experience we had. We went to a psychologist ( only once) who suggested we watch porn together! She said she had a lot of couples do that! Yeah, I know, ridiculous, but it happens. I recommend Celebrate Recovery support groups. The groups give you somebody to talk to and somebody who can pray with you and help you find the way out of this. Many churches have these groups now and they help so much. There are groups for men as well as women. The woman's group I'm in includes addicts of all types as well as women who are married to addicts. I know that God is using these groups to get so many people free from addictions. They have a website, so maybe you can find one in your area. Not all of the churches that have a group are listed on the website, so you might want to just call churches in your area to see if they have a Celebrate Recovery group.
Hope this helps.
Just me
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Tears4Us
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Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 01:53 pm |
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Hi sweetie, I am so sorry and feel your pain. I too am a wife of a porn addict. There is hope and there is healing. Please know that. Your husband can be free from this addiction. It takes time and Jesus.
I wish I could answer your question about the intimacy, but that is a heart matter and is determined by how you are feeling and healing. I know for me I never ceased having sex with my husband. I somehow thought that if I gave him more he would not have the need to lust after porn, but I later learned that I was wrong in my thinking.
An addict is not addicted to the act of sex, he is addicted to the visual experience that gives them the false sense of excitement, that ends in the act of a release, being masturbation or sex with the wife. Believe it or not they hate the way it makes them feel after the fact, but because of the bondage they have trouble stopping the behavior.
I have leaned over the years that when men act out most of the time is not for the sexual experience, as your husband stated "because he was mad at me over something that had happened." They use that as an excuse to act out. For some men it is their way of dealing with problems. I do not know why this is, men are just different then women.
So no matter how often we had sex, he still had the need to act out, because it was not the sex he was after, it was the feeling of that high he was searching for. Like any addiction at first there is this wow factor that first high is awesome, but as time goes by that starts to diminish and then it becomes a quest to feel what he felt at the start of the addiction, and each time he tries he sets his self up for disappointment. He cannot ever gain that feeling again.
He becomes frustrated and starts to shut out every one around him. He becomes cold and uncaring. He views women as an object to gain the once high he can no longer find any longer. Then there is his wife.....
The guilt sets in and he is ashamed of the acts he has done. So he shuts her out too. Once caught he becomes immune to her emotions, because truthfully he does not know how to deal with his own hurt and shame. But there is hope and healing.....
It starts when he opens up and he realizes he has a problem. Not only because he has hurt you, but because he sees and starts to deal with the pain that this addiction has caused him.
Will your husband agree to counseling? Does he have an accountability partner other then you?
I am so happy to hear you love your husband. I love my husband dearly also and refuse to allow Satan to win this battle. I admire you for your strength to endure, I know from experience this is not always an easy task, but not by your power and might, but by God's we wife's pick up the cross and carry the burdens for the men we love. The Bible say we are to die to our self's daily. I feel the wife of a porn addict is perfect example of this. We know the true meaning of long suffering.
I will keep you in my prayers. Please feel free to come here as you ride this emotional roller coaster to healing. I have found this place to be such a blessing. There are many women here that have husbands at different stages of this addiction. Each of us have our own experiences, but we all share the same pain and support each other through this.
Allow Jesus to be your strength sweetie, and know there are people here that care about you and what you are feeling.......
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Praise6
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Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 03:26 pm |
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I do understand. This battle was in my marriage for the first 15 plus years. Of course my husband would get caught, promise to stop, I would belive him and we would move on until the next time.
Finally in 2000 I found a support board of addicts. They told me that I didn't have to accept any of this. I had a right to have a porn free marriage. I was so tired. I wasn't a Christian so divorce was an option. I told me husband that I could stand no more of the porn, lies and such. I was done. He had to find a way to stop. That time he took me serious because for once in our marriage I was serious. I was so tired of it all that I didn't care if he stayed or left, I just wanted the porn gone.
Praise God, my husband stopped. He didn't go to any meetings, read any books, go to counseling or find support online. He just stopped. I continued to find support for myself so the I could stay strong with my stance and recover from the pain.
It has been almost 6 years. We are now Christians and although divorce is not an option anymore, if my husband were to slip back into that world, he would have to go. We would separate indefinitely.
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HealingRain
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Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 05:04 pm |
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Thank you for all the advice and support. It is really helping. Reassuring actually.
I am still a wreck. I am trying with all of me to heal from this. Its just really hard. I feel as if my soul has been torn apart, tarnished some how. I told my husband that last night, and it brought tears to his eyes. He was hugely in denial where I was concerned. We are talking now.. he is opening up. I don't know what I said that finally got through to him, but he is seriously working on this now. Last night, we actually got to talk with out me loosing my control and breaking down. Now, thats not to say I didn't cry, because I couldn't stop the tears if my life depended on it.. but I stayed calm... and in return he opened up to me.
We talked about his "reasons" and he admitted that he is thinking on all of that seriously. That so far all he can come up with are excuses and he doesn't want to give me anymore excuses. I told him that I hated his excuses, they hurt me. They make me think that he is an uncarring, unloving, hateful, selfcentered person. That is not the man I love. I really think that sunk in. I asked him if that is how he wants me to see him, and he said no, but that its the way he sees himself. He finally admitted to the anger he has for himself and what he has been doing. Finally admitted to the guilt. Admitted to me how he felt after each time, before he said he felt nothing. Last night, was a big break through. He finally confided in me. There is so much the man was keeping from me. Its very hard to understand, from my point of view since I have been so very open with him... but I have to accept that he wasn't ready.
He made this statement to me last night, as we were discussing other's opinions on this matter (we were watching Dr. phill and I had explained how my feelings were similiar to the woman on there that was verbally abused by her husband. He was shocked, because he had not done anything like that to me... but after thinking and watching the show, he saw the similarity). There was a statement made that "men are very visual creatures, and us as women should make ourselves appealing to them always" I litterally came unglued. Said that if I hear that excuse one more time I was going to go insane! That it is the biggist untruth ever. That infact I feel that sort of thinking has gotten society to where it is right now. And, surprisingly my husband says "you are right. The biggest problem is that we have trivilized this into something so very small. It is what I thought, that it was a small thing to do. I was wrong." It went on from there, him expressing his thoughts on the matter. And I was completely shocked. I really think he is beginning to understand.
He has not looked at porn since I caught him 3 weeks ago. The computers have been cleared off and he knows I am monitoring them... in fact, the laptop, which was his computer of choice, is completely off limits to him. He has accepted that. He did the clearing, not me. I left it all there waiting for him to do the work, and he did with out me prompting him. And he went through every file, with me right there, to make sure everything was gone.
I wish I could express how he is being better than I do... He is really senciere in all of this. He is being very loving (even if he is angry and hurtful) and does want to work all this out. I do trust and believe that he loves me. Hard sometimes, but I do. He is a good man, please don't think otherwise. He is an amazing father too.
As far as counceling.. He is open to it, but finacially we can't pull it off right now. I'm thinking of looking into a church group, but not sure yet. I've told him that if things get worse, or if he keeps "stalemating" that I will go to his father. Its the only person that I believe could get through to him. He has a huge respect for his dad. He got very upset when I told him this, and acused me of just trying to hurt him. That is not the case... we all know I could do tons of things just to hurt him. I want all the hurting to stop! After we talked last night, I think he understood why I will go to his dad.
Today, I have a better outlook on the future. A better outlook for our marriage. Yesterday, I thought I was alone... today, we are working together. It feels pretty darn good. I still hurt, I still don't trust, I still have worries... and I know this is going to be anything but easy... but I feel that finally we have started down the right tract, together. I asked him how I can be sure this time is for real, that he is honestly dedicated to stopping... and he said "When the desire returns and I come to you honestly confessing to it with out giving into it, then you will see. Because I do know it will return, it always has. When I come to you, you will know."
We have been intimate since this all happened. I felt it was the first time we had completely come together, as one... as its intended. But then, something happened that set me back. Now he is afraid of being with me for fear that I will not be able to get past my feelings and thoughts. I think I need that closeness to heal. I don't know how to tell him this. And I don't think I could stand the rejection if I tried. He is pretty set in his thinking that we need to heal first. I think its part of the healing. I don't know. I crave my husband, as it should be... and I just can't understand why he can't touch me. It hurts.
HealingRain
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truthseeker
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Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 05:56 pm |
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HealingRain,
I am also praying for you and your husband.
You might be able to find a pastor who has experience in SA counselling and would not charge. I am so thankful that he is starting to open up to you.
As to intimacy, it is certainly different for each couple. My first discovery occurred the day before I was flying to Texas to visit family for two weeks, which proved to be a blessed buffer for some initial healing, being able to resume upon my return. I discovered, during the introspection that is common to this discovery, that I had a separate, unrelated issue of avoiding intimacy, so, in working through that, we were more intimate than we had been in a very long time. I, too, did not want to compound the painful process with rejection, and it worked for us, as he didn't engage in denial. Unfortunately, one of the side affects of SA can be flashbacks, which are likely to occur during intimate moments, since all those images cannot just be purged from the brain. On the couple of occasions when this has happened, he has acknowledged it, and we have moved on. If this is what is bothering him, let him know that it happens, but should not keep him from being close to you.
Self-loathin, also, I believe is common, especially when the relationship is generally good. Confronting the roots of the matter, as they often go back to childhood or adolescence, can be very disturbing. It is often tied in to other things from their past that they don't know how to sepaarate without feeling like they are losing a portion of identity, or reputiating more than just the porn, such as, perhaps, a family member or friend who introduced them to it. I, too, would urge that trying to do it on your own is more likely to result in relapse.
TruthSeeker
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HealingRain
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Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 07:34 pm |
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>As to intimacy, it is certainly different for each couple. My first discovery occurred the day before I was flying to Texas to visit family for two weeks, which proved to be a blessed buffer for some initial healing, being able to resume upon my return. I discovered, during the introspection that is common to this discovery, that I had a separate, unrelated issue of avoiding intimacy, so, in working through that, we were more intimate than we had been in a very long time. I, too, did not want to compound the painful process with rejection, and it worked for us, as he didn't engage in denial. Unfortunately, one of the side affects of SA can be flashbacks, which are likely to occur during intimate moments, since all those images cannot just be purged from the brain. On the couple of occasions when this has happened, he has acknowledged it, and we have moved on. If this is what is bothering him, let him know that it happens, but should not keep him from being close to you.<
It is actually my feelings that he is worried about, not the images he might see. He swears they have never entered our bed, though I am not so sure of this. There are way too many incidents of "what was that about?"..KWIM? He has told me that he knows my mind is full of worry and wondering if he is "thinking of others" while we are intimate. He doesn't want me bringing it to our bed... does that make sense? So he thinks we should abstain untill a better level of healing has been achieved. I think he is afraid of rejection FROM me. I can't get him to understand that I won't reject him, that I need that aspect of our relationship to be strong. That I can't survive with out it.... I've survived with out it too long. It is the main reason I looked into what was going on with him... I couldn't take the distance between us any longer. I absolutely need that connection with him. I have no idea how to tell him this. Everytime I have tried, I get all choked up, panicked and retreat. I've been rejected for 10 years and its hard to break the barrier I've built up too.
>Self-loathin, also, I believe is common, especially when the relationship is generally good. Confronting the roots of the matter, as they often go back to childhood or adolescence, can be very disturbing. It is often tied in to other things from their past that they don't know how to sepaarate without feeling like they are losing a portion of identity, or reputiating more than just the porn, such as, perhaps, a family member or friend who introduced them to it. I, too, would urge that trying to do it on your own is more likely to result in relapse.<
We did go into this in our talk last night. He confided some things to me that he had been keeping locked away. He had mentioned stuff before, but would never go into detail. Last night, allthough he still didn't go all the way into everything, he finally laid out childhood hurts. I had a very very tragic childhood with repeated sexual abuse.. all of which he knows about. Its hard for me to understand why he didn't feel he could confide in me sooner. That is just something I have to accept. I delt with my issues, with his help actually and have healed as much as a sexual abuse victim can... I just hope he too can do that now. I really honestly feel that if there isn't some healing from the issues, he will always act out because of them. I lived that life already. I did not find true happiness, or contentment within myself till I healed from mine.
HealingRain
Last edited on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 07:46 pm by HealingRain
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wishingwell
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Posted: Mon Aug 21st, 2006 05:31 pm |
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| Just a note regarding your monitoring of the computer...I checked the history often and knew that all the sites i had been on the previous day should still be there ...when my husband relapsed he deleted only one days worth of history and only the cookies that were related to the site he was on. He carefully covered his tracks because he knew I was looking. The only reason I caught him was because the stool we used for a computer seat was three inches from where I had set it earlier that day and he didn't realize i had moved it there to keep our son from tripping on it. Little blessings that reminded me how strongly ingrained his desire to live in a secret world and how extra vigilance is required to protect us....
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