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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 06:40 pm |
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Hello,
I have been married to a man who is addicted to porn and M for almost 6 years now. We have ridden the roller coaster, up and down, up and down. I am sure you will all relate to this ride, it goes something like this:
He begins to act "funny". He becomes easily angered, low frustration tolerance, hyper-critical (not only of me, but our daughters too). He makes very little eye contact, all physical affection stops, he stares off into space and says "Huh?" a lot. That is (up until now) when I find porn either on his computer or mags or DVD's in the house, I confront him, he denies it (gets angry), I give him the "smoking gun", he goes silent, I leave, 24 hours go by, he begins sending emails/calling (I'm so sorry, I'll never do it again, PLEASE come back), I come back, everything is good for 6 weeks, he gives me a lot of attention and is very physically attentive, slowly it dies away, then one day he is angry, critical, insensitive, no eye contact, no affection (physical or otherwise).....I begin to suspect.....I look, there it is again....we repeat!
This time around I am seeing the "behavior" but no "evidence" (other than the "mood") to support my suspicion.
What is the connection between the anger, criticism, no eye contact, no physical affection and viewing porn? I mean HE GIVES HIMSELF AWAY. I do not even need to go looking for it anymore. I KNOW when it is there because of the way he acts. Am I imagining this? Am I crazy? Why does porn make him so angry at me? When he found Shelley Lubben's profile (an ex-porn star and Christian) in my friends list on myspace he seemed to take it as a direct attack against him. HUH?
I want to understand why the anger and distance. Is there any research out there that has been done on this subject? Has anyone else experienced this?
This is a pattern of behavior I have noticed since we met.....I used to think it was me thought. I would jump through all kind of hoops to avoid the horrible mood swings. Clean the house extra good, be extra cheerful, try to anticipate his every need and desire and try to stay three steps ahead. Then, when it didn't work, I would just assume it was my fault and that I must be a very awful wife.
As the years have gone by and the "episodes" of porn use and getting caught and leaving, coming back etc. have happened, I have discovered this pattern. When he is "using" he acts very different.
I am off in the other room praying. Praying that he will be brought to the end of himself and get saved. Praying for myself that I will keep my eyes on Jesus and that I will be able to love him and respond in love to him and not take things personal (even though it is pretty personal).
This round of "mood" I have not confronted him regarding porn use, because he has gotten much better at hiding it and I have no "smoking gun". But I have asked, "What is wrong, why are you so angry, why will you not touch me"? He claims I am imagining things.
I am attending church (Sun. morn and evening), he is obviously bothered by. I, for the most part, get the victory over reacting to his anger and criticism....but sometimes it is a wash and I respond (UGLY). Mostly when he yells at out 4 year old....I lose it with him.
I KNOW HE IS USING! He is acting like it. I just don't understand why he hates me so much when he uses. I do not know how to respond...I know, I know, "in love" that's how I am to respond, but I am getting tired and plain worn down. God is always there for me. He builds me up, He loves me, He never criticizes me...but the reality is I have to live in the same four walls as this man and in front of our child and the BATTLE IS FIERCE! I get weary sometimes. I just don't understand why he gets so defensive and angry.
Bless you all, and thank you for your time and attention.
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Paulos
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Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 07:51 pm |
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Gettingthevictory,
The behaviors you describe are his expression toward other people of the egoism that is the essence of masturbation and pornography. What appeals to the masturbator who uses porn is the fact that he can be in total and unchallenged control of the tactile and aesthetic stimuli that trigger his orgasm, without depending on anyone else or working at a relationship. He's willing to surrender the deeper, mutual satisfactions of loving another person, to have instead the sensual experience of a private climax. When the real world of human relationships threatens to interfere with his individual sovereignty he pushes reality away and retreats further into the solitude of his fantasy world. This explains the irritability and lack of engagement at those times.
His apologies and attentions to you in between may well be quite sincere. It sounds like he feels genuinely bad about his habit. He know there's a better way and may even fully intend to walk it until overwhelmed by the need for another fix. If he doesn't yet know the Lord, his psyche is the scene of ongoing conflict between incompatible tendencies, with conscience on the one side and misdirected desires on the other (Romans 7:14-25). It's a miserable condition from which only Christ can deliver.
I will pray for his salvation.
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TimM
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Posted: Wed Oct 17th, 2007 10:20 pm |
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For me, too, anger has always been a huge part of the addictive ritual. I think there are at least 2 parts to that for me.
First, I am angry at others because I am really angry at myself, and I try to control others because I cannot control myself. The anger and isolation are outward projections of interior states. In this case, the anger can either precede or follow the acting out.
Second, and more fundamentally, I collect stresses and resentments and I manufacture causes of grievance because if I am angry, if my needs are not being met, if I am being oppressed and put upon, if distance exists between me and my family, then I feel justified in isolating and in acting out. I need to have my needs met somewhere, and anyway, they don't care about me and they deserve it. In this case, the anger is a step toward the acting out.
Now, let me be clear that in describing an extremely unsavory side of my behavior, I'm not trying to justify that behavior. I've been profoundly wrong to behave in this way. The blame for my anger lies with me, and not with my wife and kids. I have been the abuser, and they have been the abused. I'm really clear on this. But this is how the psychological dynamic has worked for me.
For me and for my family, my rage behavior was probably the most destructive aspect of my acting out. It left my wife and kids mystified about what they had done wrong. For kids of addicts, managing unpredictable adult anger is really difficult. The magnitude of the anger and the frequency of the anger are much less significant than the unpredictability of the anger, I learn from the therapist of one of my kids, who is helping him work with issues of depression and anxiety connected in part to my addictive history.
For that reason, I really want to encourage you to keep attentive to the needs of your 4-year-old. Whether or not your husband is interested in recovery and in counseling, seeing someone yourself to learn how to keep yourself serene and your child healthy might be time and money well spent. My kids are all great people, but especially the older ones who lived with me longest as an active addict are working with challenges I wish they could have been spared. It's a huge blessing to find my relations especially with the younger kids deepening and opening up as I learn better and better to listen and to be open and to treat them with love and respect.
Does all this make sense? Is there more I can usefully say?
Tim M.
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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 04:00 am |
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First of all thank you so much for your swift reply. It was scary posting on here. Scary to talk about this (I try to keep it burried so I can carry on with my busy life) and talking about it or rather typing about it makes it all come to the surface. Secondly, since I have had to deal with so much rejection and turmoil off and on for the last 6 years (and pretty intensely for the last 4 weeks straight), I was sure no one would respond. So, thank you for taking the time to answer.
What is the best way to respond to him? I want to do what is right. I am through being co-dependent. I have started back to college and will have my degree by next fall. It still hurts when he is cold, angry, critical....but not like it once did. I teeter totter back and forth between leaving (just going to the attorney and filing), or, moving into the spare bedroom permanently (or semi-permanent - until I graduate), or just pretending everything is ok and just getting through one more day. I am amazed that I still have love for this man though. It must be God. I remember that "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man". So I am careful to check my own heart. I know God, and He knows me. I am born again, my husband is not. I want to do what is right not what makes me feel good.
I want to know how to respond to this. It is hell on me to go into "spy mode". It can consume me and Satan can use it against me. My flesh wants to KNOW (so that I won't be caught off guard again). Being caught off guard is the worst! It is like having your legs knocked out from under you from behind while you stand there with this dumb happy trusting smile on your face.
What is best? If there are no consequences for his actions, what is his motivation to stop????? But I am not God. And I don't know if my imposing consequences is me playing God. Also, I do not know if me doing nothing (nothing as in no direct consequences, but still praying and being kind - no retaliating with angry words or actions) helps either. I JUST WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND NOT THE WRONG THING! I think I am so upset right now because my daughter and I leave for a trip out of state to see my Mom for 4 days beginning day after tomorrow. And I KNOW WHAT HE WILL BE DOING while we are gone. I am having trouble leaving this in God's hands....
I just don't want to be a big sap anymore. A pushover, a fool. Sometime I feel so stupid and pathetic....Like he is laughing at me and thinking, "Aha, I got one over on her again".
Enough rambling.....
Again, thank you for listening.
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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 04:06 am |
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Thank you Paulos! His name is Michael. He needs Jesus. Satan has him in bondage, and as a result, we both suffer.
I suffer in being able to hang on to love for my husband (as Christ commands me to). I feel sooooo distant (and therefore safe) from my husband right now. It hurts to love him. Sometimes it hurts too much. I am not Jesus. But, I am to take up my cross daily and follow after him. To be an imitator of Christ. This is so hard.
Thank you and God bless you for your offer to pray for his salvation. I hope you really will. He needs prayer warriors interceeding for him.....he is so lost and alone.
Thank you for your kind attention and relpy.
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truthseeker
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 06:09 am |
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Hi gettingthevictory,
First, I would suggest that you peruse the information, especially on addiction, at:
Pure Intimacy.
Setting boundaries against unfaithfulness is not unreasonable. I suggest one of a couple of things, but please pray and seek God's direction, and/or consult your pastor, his wife, or another trusted christian sister. First, having obtained a sitter and going out, or having someone watch the kids elsewhere so as not to be distracted at home, you could bring up the pattern that has been occurring and how it is damaging the foundation of trust in your relationship, explaining that the two of you need to seek counsel to probe the roots of the issues and bring healing to the marriage. Explain that his willpower has only had short-term success, and that there must be outside assistance in dealing with it. Alternatively, you could keep hunting for the next smoking gun, leave as you have before, but refuse to return until he seeks outside help for his addictionand demonstrates his commitment to recovery. Running to an attorney without a clear boundary to get outside help is premature in my opinion.
As you are already seeing, however, this is a very unhealthy pattern for children to be caught up in. Little girls who are taught by their fathers that they deserve such treatment, and that their mothers deserve such treatment, are teaching them what kind of behavior they should expect/deserve from men when they are adults.
Neither you nor your daughters deserve his anger and criticism. He is probably reflecting the criticism which it hurts too much to level at himself in the mirror.
Filtering softwre such as SafeEyes isn't a bad barrier for the beginning of recovery, but that is only a bandaid. If he doesn't dig to the roots of the addiction, it will rear its ugly head endlessly.
Hugs and prayers,
TruthSeeker
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TimM
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 11:02 am |
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I haven't been in your situation, only in his, so I don't have a lot of direct thoughts for what you ought to do. You'll get better advice from the other wives here.
What I think I do understand is this. It's certainly reasonable to set up boundaries and consequences aimed at protecting you and your daughter, both physically and psychologically. It's possible that those boundaries and consequences will cause your husband to see the seriousness of his situation, to hit bottom, and to become willing to undertake the hard and scary work of surrendering and beginning a new life. It's also possible that they will not. As you say, you're not God, and your husband's reactions and recovery are out of your control. What I think spouses need to do is to work to keep themselves and their kids safe and serene, and to keep accepting that if your husband is powerless over his desires, then so are you. Of course you want him to get better, and you can probably see much of the process he needs to undertake, but he may or may not do that, and you will go nuts if you try to maintain the belief that you can be the force behind his recovery. So consequences are great, but they have to be consequences aimed at protecting you and your daughter, not consequences aimed at giving him a motivation to recover.
For those who do get serious about getting better, the motivation is, I think, the pain inside. Some of that pain may be consequences of actions like separation or divorce, but much of that pain is also the internal emptiness and fear and fragmentation that supports the whole addictive structure.
That's how it seems to me, anyway, but I understand this part only from listening to others who have been there. I'll slip out and let the other spouses take over.
Tim M.
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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Thu Oct 18th, 2007 11:41 pm |
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Comon other women! I need you! Any women out there experienced this? I need to know I am not the only one who has gone through this.
Thanks
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Oct 19th, 2007 04:41 am |
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Hi gettingthevictory,
Though a woman, anger was not a significant part of our experience, but is for many, many addicts, consequently wives, which is why I directed you to the Pure Intimacy site. I hope that you have had time to read through the wives forum, since you will see there that your experience is quite typical. You are not crazy. Attempting to make you question yourself is a key tactic for the addict in trying to hide from himself.
While this article about
addictive behavior
focuses on pastors, it also discusses the role that anger plays for the addict.
I wish that I could believe that low traffic here indicated a lessening of SA affecting families, but sometimes activity here happens in waves, and, unfortunately, few choose to remain to support others beyond their own crisis.
Praying for you...
TruthSeeker
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Fri Oct 19th, 2007 06:26 pm |
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Gettingthevictory:
You are not the only one that is going through this!
I felt compelled to respond - as I completely understand. My husband also begins to act "funny" when he is acting out, although he does not get angry. He has his own "signs" - and sometimes I have seen the "signs" and have checked the computer and have found nothing. I would ask him straight out - and if he has acted out, he admits to it. If he has not, he will tell me that too.
I trust him to tell me the truth because he has admitted to acting out whenever I have confronted him. This has not always been the case.
For a long time I was too afraid to confront until last year when it got completely out of control. Now - although I still need to work up the courage...I will confront him. There have been a few times when he has confessed without me asking.
For many months my husband has not acted out - until last week. Certainly it was not as bad as it had been in the past, but it was acting out nonetheless. All of the old feelings came rushing back to me - the fears were back - and my "detective hat" was tossed back on my head. I hate that feeling too...being in "spy mode". It can be all consuming if I let it. I hate being caught off guard - just like you.
I have all the feelings you mentioned: "A pushover, a fool. Sometime I feel so stupid and pathetic....Like he is laughing at me and thinking, "Aha, I got one over on her again"." When I read that I thought to myself - that's exactly what I would think. I told my husband as much.
Oh...and I COMPLETELY HATE IT when his friends e-mail porn to him!!!!! That actually is a recurring thing - and all I can do is pray for his friends (and...I do). Sometimes my husband is caught off-guard with these e-mails because there is no indication that it is porn. BUT - sometimes in the subject lines it states: "XXX" or "men only" - or something to that effect. Then...he opens it knowing full well what it will be. So - it is still a battle.
My husband and I talk about it. He does not get angry or defensive whenever I want to talk about it. He is open and "exposes" his thoughts and his heart to me. He is very compassionate. I really do consider myself lucky and blessed (yes...blessed) because he is so open about his addiction and that he puts himself "in my shoes". We are both Christians and I think that makes all the difference in the world. We are "forever" and leaving is never an option. I have often told him that I just hope that "forever" will be a happy one.
Now...I am feeling rather good today - but if you had "seen" me last week...I was the complete opposite. A complete and utter mess.
I also need to confess to you that I know what being "drawn" to porn is like - because it has happened to me. There were times over the years (before God and before the level of my husband's addiction came to light) that I had no problem watching porn - and I also know the temptation...the lure. So - I think it helps (in a weird way) that my husband knows that I "know" and actually do understand what happens when I have succumed to temptation and let it "take over".
I think this is a continued healing process. By taking the right steps and doing the right things - my husband and I will be healed. Through it all - and with everything we have worked on and have overcome by working together...it has made us stronger.
One day at a time.
I am sorry about the anger your husband directs at you - and I do not think that I have the knowledge or right to give any advice. I see so many other members and moderators that are full of wisdom and Godly advice - and I am thankful for that.
Please just keep turning to God - and keeping your eyes on Jesus! See God in everything and He will see you through...no matter what.
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decide2love
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 03:08 pm |
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Yes I go through this as well. My H takes his infidelity with P&M out on me. He is doing it with the kids by refusing to father either one of them . I have become a single parent married.
When he acts out he gets distant, and angry about little things, and becomes petulant, and basically ignores me for days at a time. He Ms in the middle of the night after he thinks I am asleep (but he always wakes me up doing it). This last time was for a week and a half.
There is research done on this. Dr. Douglas Weiss has a lot of information on this. It has helped me to understand the whys and what my H is doing to me, and that has helped me to stop accepting his behavior toward me as being my fault. It still hurts a lot when he does it, but I know it is his choice to stay in his dark hole of his fantasies.
I too jumped through all kinds of hoops to try and pacify him... from changing the way I dressed (more risque) to degrading myself in bed with him by letting him act out on me. But after a time it seemed to be extremely dissatisfying to him. It was because I crossed over into his filth and one of the reasons he married me was because of my puritan Christian behaviors. I was the purity he so desperately wanted for himself. I'm not tooting my own horn - just stating the way I was when we first met and were friends. After the devistation of my catching him acting out the first time wore off, I began to change me, thinking that if only I could increase his attraction to me and make him look at me then he would stop. BAH! It actually made him worse. So I made him my god and worshiped him as one. I waited on him hand and foot, I met him at the door with a smile of promise for the evening (only to be rejected because he'd rather have self-sex), I made sure the kids were quiet when he didn't want to mess with them, I made sure that the kids met his every whim and supported him in his abuse of them. I snapped back into reality and blew a fuse. Now all communication between him and them have stopped. He does not want to hear about them at all and ignores them totally. I have went to my children and asked for forgiveness and we are to start our recovery program this Friday. My H will not be attending as he sees a required humility in the process and refuses it.
I have stopped telling him how and where I have found his stash. He'd just hide it somewhere else. And I've stopped telling him that I know when he Ms in the dead of night or on the way home from work. It is his choice to stay in the pig trough and eat slop - actually I don't know if he has made it that far yet, sometimes I think he's still "in a far country wasting his substance with roitous living". Because he still goes to the bars when he wants to do what a man should be allowed to do without question and comes home late from work twice a week. Not late enough to have been with another body, but late enough to have been with himself somewhere down a secluded road in the shade of a tree or in the backside of a graveyard (grotesque I know).
There is a lot of shame in his actions. He knows what he is doing is wrong. He knows there is help out there, but he refuses the help because of his pride. He will not humble himself and reach out to another Godly man for accountability or help of any kind. He considers himself a happy recluse and doesn't realize that he is a recluse spider to himself and his family.
I'm not turning a blind eye nor a deaf ear to his SA. But I am focusing on my healing and restoration from the abuse he has inflicted on me and I accepted because I didn't know about his SA and because I trusted him totally with me and my kids. Now I do not trust him with any part of me or my kids. I trust in the Lord to heal each of us where we need it.
It is painful, the healing and the living with a SAH who does not want to receive from Christ. Because Christ has provided a way of escape for him.
I have good days and I have really bad days. Sometimes I wonder if I need a prescribed anti-depressant but then I realize... Christ is my anti-depressant if only I would stay in Him!
This is probably more than you wanted to be addressed. My point is that my H becomes beligerant (wants to make war) with me and the kids when he is active in his SA because we do not meet his fantasy family and concubine expectations, and now that I refuse to be his concubine and he has given up any rights to be a father to my children, he stays angry and distant and petulant more than 70% of the time. 25% of the time he plays his playstation (another fantasy world he can control), and I get the other 5% when he chooses to live in this world with me. He doesn't like reality - it's too real! It's too painful for him to face. Of course he denies all of this. He has begun to stare off blankly and mumble to himself with his secret smile on his face, and stay secluded within his mind more and more often. It causes him to be late to work. Yesterday he had a car accident because of it. He's okay, and the 29yo female school teacher he ramed in the rear is okay, but now our insc rates will go up, yet again, and it costs to get the police report and he wants me to just be okay with it all. BAH!
You are in my prayers.
Last edited on Fri Aug 8th, 2008 04:31 pm by decide2love
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 09:12 am |
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Well - here is to having egg on my face!
I just told you in my post the other day that I trust that my husband would tell me the truth...that whenever I have asked him if he's "acted out" that he has always told me if he has or has not...my - how things change soooooooo quickly!
I am supposed to trust my husband...and I do not.
If I cannot trust my husband - who can I trust? I guess God is the only One.
How sad I feel right now.
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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 05:05 pm |
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Hi,
I am sorry you are feeling sad today. Thank you for writing to me. I was in Portland visiting my Mom over the weekend with my daughter......just taking a little break from the stress of my household. Of course, now that I am back with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde...the stress is back. Of course I wonder (a lot) about what he did while I was gone. There is no physical evidence of any porn (he has gotten real good at hiding it), and that makes me feel both relieved and distressed. Relieved because I do not want to face it. Distressed because I KNOW he did. All my bells and whistles are going off. I wish (and I don't at the same time) that I could just stumble upon the "stash" and be done with this whole thing. I want to move to Portland to be near my Mom (unreasonable idea), but comforting all the same. If I leave this man I don't care if I EVER see another one. I am pretty much fed up with them all.
Enough about me.....Tell me, if you want to, what is happening in your life. I am here to listen.
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 05:47 pm |
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Hi gettingthevictory:
I would have wondered what my husband was up to - if I were in your shoes. The only thing is this...I always want the know the truth! If I do not know the truth - I do not know what I am or should be battling. I want my husband to be honest with me - even if he has slipped. The longer that I don't know about it - the longer he may (and likely would) continue to do it - and the worse it will become...and I am telling you - I do not want a replay of the porn I found last December.
If he is not being honest with me...that just drives a wedge in our marriage. How can we get close and have a solid marriage if deceipt and dishonesty hover in a cloud around us?
You say your "bells and whistles" are going off. I would trust your instincts.
Do you confront your husband - even when you only suspect? From what I learned - as a wife and supporter of my husband, I am "allowed" to "check in" with my husband every so often. Mind you - I was "checking in" with him last night...and he was not honest with me. That really did not get me anywhere.
But - like you said...your husband shows "signs" of using - and so does mine. Last night he not only showed the "signs"...but also it was like he was "pointing" to what he was doing.
I know that sounds so vague - and I am sorry about that.
I know what you mean about your husband getting better at hiding it. My husbands choice of acting out is normally on-line porn. This time, he chose a different tool (not on the computer). Because I have trained myself to pay very close attention to things...I know when something is amiss. Oh...and I noticed things "amiss" last night. It will be interesting to know why he has changed his habit.
I will be confronting my husband. Before speaking with my husband about anything - I give myself a cool-off period so I don't say anything I will regret later on. From what I have learned - I need to speak to and confront him with love. If I start spewing nonsence around - nothing will be accomplished...only more anger. I pray a lot before speaking with my husband on this issue. I pray for God to grant me Grace, peace, love and wisdom.
I suspect what brought about this latest "slip" is the fact that the company he works for is closing its doors at the end of December. He's worried and to distract himself - he may "act out". Well - I am worried too - but instead of living in fantasy land - I want to stand together as a united front and work through his job issues...not bury my head in something that is not "real". Nothing gets worked out that way. If he is living in "fantasy land"...then I am standing alone. My only saving Grace is the fact that God is standing there...right beside me.
I've been with my husband for nearly 2 years now - so I cannot imagine going through what you have gone through for 6 years! I hope you are praying. I said a prayer this morning for everyone here.
Thank you for responding to my post. Please keep in touch to let me know how you are doing. My heart goes out to you. I know how it feels.
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 09:09 pm |
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Hi gettingthevictory:
I posted this on the "introduction" thread - and thought I would update you on what has happened since I last wrote...
Well - I had the chance to speak with my husband on the phone this afternoon.
He said that he did not "remember" about "acting out" - and actually - he downplayed it quite nicely, I might add.
He "said" he only "scanned" some pages of the book for a couple of minutes. He "said" he picked up the DVD and only thought about putting it into the DVD player. Nice how I cannot prove him otherwise, huh?
But - I still have my instincts - and I am usually bang on with that - and I know in my heart of hearts that he is lying to me...and there is NOTHING he can say to convince me that he did NOT start looking at that DVD!!!!!!!
He is lying. I know he is. I feel he is.
We quite obviously do not want the same thing out of our marriage. I want honesty and respect - he does not want to give it.
Oh ya - we are going to talk further about it tonight. I wonder how many more lies he is going to feed me. He only tells me enough - just so that he does not get into "trouble".
All I want is honesty. Is that too much to ask for?
IF HE WOULD ONLY TELL THE TRUTH!!!! Is THAT too much to ask for?
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gettingthevictory
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Posted: Wed Oct 24th, 2007 09:58 pm |
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Ah yes, the illusive truth! I have often wondered what goes on in their brains when the truth is required. Are they afraid that telling the truth will compromise their ability to act out in the future? Do they lie because they are trying to convince themselves? Is it shame? Is it self serving or trying to spare your feelings? Is it lying just to get some lying practice? I don't know. It would help me soooooo much just to be told the truth (no matter what the truth is). The lying is in some ways (only in some ways) the hardest part. Because it is done right to your face. Like you don't matter, like you are stupid. That is so hard to handle. It makes it so that I NEVER know when he is telling the truth. I always just assume when he tells me something, "maybe, maybe not". I should just trust my instinct...but I am afraid that will turn me into a miserable old distrustful cynic....always seeing the worst in people. I don't want that to be me, and I don't want that to be him.
The lying is the second part of the betrayal of intimicy as I see it. I have an easier time forgiving the addiction and the episodes of acting out than I do the secrecy, sneeking and lying to my face. It is just so insulting.
So how did he come to have access to a DVD? Was it a rental? One he had stashed?
I am sorry, so sorry for you both. For anyone who has to endure this kind of pain.
Try looking him in the eyes (after much private prayer) and compassionatly (with an even slow deliberate tone of voice) telling him that you know, he knows and most of all God knows what the real truth is, and that any thing that is held back will only result in a stronghold of the Enemy and that it will be him that is in chains. Sometimes love (not our love but the love that comes only from the Father) can break through.
Let me know how it goes.
As i was writing this reply, a lady from the church I have been visiting called to invite me to church tonight. I'm taking my daughter and going. God is so good to me....even if my husband isn't. Looks like I have to blaze a trail for him, just like a pioneer.
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 10:31 am |
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It is me again.
First I have to tell you that I really like your attitude and I really like your Faith. You said "Looks like I have to blaze a trail for him (your husband), just like a pioneer". God works through people - even people we do not know and I want to thank you for your words. It is sometimes difficult to have faith...even hope through these times - and you encouraged me...with everything you said - and especially that sentence.
We talked last night. I still do not believe that he did not watch even just a little bit of that video. He told me he did not - but "something" tells me he did. He admitted to reading the (porn) book though, and still...that is not okay.
Like you said - when he lies to me...right to my face - it is like I don't matter, like I am stupid. Even if eventually he does tell me the truth about something - it is such a battle to get to that point because I feel like I have to be so specific in what I ask. If only he would just come right out and tell me the truth from the beginning...I would feel that he respects me and my intelligence - and I wouldn't feel like I've gone into battle.
The books and DVD's were in our basement. They are ones we had from the beginning of our relationship and some that he had from before. They are now in the GARBAGE!
My husband has done well over the past 10 months - and I acknoweldge that. I am proud of the leaps and bounds he has made in trying to heal. However, he feels that since what he has done over the past couple of weeks are "not as bad" as it was before - that it is okay (that's the "message" I get from him). I told him last night that even the smallest incident is not acceptable. It always starts somewhere (small) and then grows out of control (like it has in the past). The problem I see right now is the "why this is happening". If we do not find out "what" and "why" - it will not just go away by itself.
He told me that he is going to join a support group - and I am all for that! I hope he follows through - and continues with it...continues with healing. I think he loves me enough to do that. I am going to find a Christian counsellor and get some therapy for what this has all done to me and my insecurities...help me with my "spirit".
I may have an answer for you about "why does your husband get mad at you when he is 'usuing'". My husband told me that while he was reading that book the other day (and - I strongly suspect while he was watching that DVD) that he was angry with ME! I believe it is because my husband knows what he was doing was wrong and that he would have to be accountable. Because now when he looks at porn...he feels guilty. I suspect that is why your husband gets angry with you...he feels a tremendous amount of guilt.
Funny how my husband would get mad at me for him doing something that hurts not only our marriage and me...but him, his spirit and his relationship with God.
The anger and bitterness - and the extreme hurt I feel will take time to heal.
I have to get ready for work now - but I wanted to touch base with you once I saw your message. I will "talk" to you later.
God bless you!
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truthseeker
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 04:14 pm |
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I like an analogy I heard recently on Focus on the Family. Teens had been pressuring their parents to see a movie which they acknowledged had just a little language and sensuality. The parents said that they would think about it for a week. At the end of the week they brought the teens in to the livingroom with a plate of brownies, and told them that they could go if they would eat a brownie, but cautioned them that just a small bit of a dog mess had been well-mixed in the batter, but since it was well-cooked, it shouldn't harm them. They opted not to go to the movie.
TruthSeeker
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wanting to heal
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 07:12 pm |
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Good analogy, truthseeker. Thank you for that!
I sometimes need truths such as that.
You have been very helpful!!!
(So have you gettingthevictory - please let me know how you are keeping)
My prayers to all of you!
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Thu Oct 25th, 2007 10:32 pm |
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Hi ladies:
I speak for what used to happen with me. Several things related to this type of anger.
First, much of it is related to guilt. But there are two kinds of guilt.
One guilt is the natural result of the operation of the conscience (placed there by our loving God), which convicts of sin with the intent of leading a person to Godly sorrow. This type of sorrow leads to repentance.
The other type of guilt is that of someone very angry that their sin is being uncovered. They are not ready to let go of it and love it very much and being made aware of it makes them furious. The thinking goes like this: if I could have the fulfilling sex that I desire, I wouldn't have to sneak and do these things. My wife, my whatever, won't/can't give it to me so I'm forced to take it myself, by myself. Therefore it's her fault. The truth however, is the thrills that men given over to this seek are illicit in the eyes of God, they will never be allowed. All the perversions and multiple thrills of multiple partners in the mind will never and can never be allowed. What is at work here is an evil ego within man. It is a form of vanity that seeks its fulfillment in a lustful sex act. It is this ego that will never be fulfilled, yet demands fulfillment. It is not nice to anyone - not to a mate and certainly not to the person's soul. And it is not nice to God. This spirit being at large within men given over to their sin is a very hateful creature and is angry most of the time. It also will endlessly blame everyone else for its own deceitful lust.
I know. I used to do this.
Another bad spirit that is fostered within many men is rebellion. We simply refuse to be told what to do. You can't make us behave and we'll punish you if you try. This is a thinly masked rebellion and disobedience of God. It is often carried over from childhood and is made worse by years of lying to yourself. If someone makes you mad, it's their fault.
I know. I used to do this.
Women - do what you need to do between you and God. As much as you can, refuse to be a part of this darkness that sin lets into your home (because sin is dwelling in your husband's heart - if they're in this condition) and pray for your husband. Until their eyes are opened, they are under the influence of darkness and will not be very nice. Darkness is evil and not nice at all and can never be made to be.
Love is Stronger than Death
(but do a word search on love in the bible, it is not a namby-pamby type of anything; God's love is strong and demanding of the one loved - and this may be of controversy, but this is what I see: God's love is not unconditional - it does require something of you: surrender)
Wilderness Voice
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