| Author | Post |
|---|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |  |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 09:15 am |
|
I just dont get the addiction to porn, other women thing. I have been battling this for 27 years. 4 of those dating. I was so naive that I would go home on a weekend and he would beg me not to go. COme back on Sunday and he would have a new girl. Dumb now that I look back on it. Current situation was an internet affair. We almost divoriced but because before it started we were the best of frineds and do almost everything together we decided to work it out. Problem is I could understand if we weren't getting along. He is getting all his needs met at this point. He even talked at church about addictions getting the best of us and then had a prayer. Then this afternoon while I was taking a nap, he searched for her name in his email. HE did not find anything as I had already gotten rid of it. Then he lied and said that was how he was trying to find the emails from me. I asked why he didn't search by my name and he said too many came up. I am 99.9 percent sure he is lying. He is getting email counseling and the couselor tells me when he hasn't responded in over 3 days. I just would like to know what to expect during counseling. Anybody's spouse going through counseling? How can you tell if they are responding to the counseling if they lie all the time? I have read to not believe words only actions. Yet his actions are great. He tells me he is falling in love with me, We are working out together, work together, do just about everthing together. He will even come and get me to do something with him. So I just dont get it. Any advice?
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 11:03 am |
|
Heres a little more history. We have been married for almost 23 years. We finally realized he cycles through addictions so it doesn't appear as if he has any. It started out 2 months after we got married with the pornography and taking girls out to bars after work, then alcohol, pot, affairs. Finally in 1996 I required that if he stayed, he would have to get help for the drug and alcohol problem which he did and has been free of those since. But the pornography, topless bars and affairs continued. then he found the Lord and things got better for a while. He became the praise team leader at our church and life was good except for finding the occasional downloaded pic. I tried to put blinders on so I wouldn't find it anymore. I quit checking to see where he was going. I did see him turn into the adult shop parking lot once, but I convinced myself he wouldn't do that. Things were going pretty well, as long as I didn't look around, until he had an affair with another girl on the praise team. He continued this despite a lot of peoples attempts to convince him otherwise, till her husband finally confronted him. This was the first public affair that he had had and I was moritified. He had to step down from praise team, and my parents and sister were the first ones to find out as the girls mother called them. That was 4 years ago. We have been dealing with porn, but life was pretty good. We get along great, go to church, he does the praise team again. About 3 weeks ago I could tell something was not right and found messages he was sending to a girl over the internet. The messages said it had been only 4 days since they had met. However they had already gotten sexual and he even sent her a webcam. I have spent the last 3 weeks trying to stop it. My current consequence is that if he contacts her we have to go tell our story to the Pastor. Which I will follow through on. I am tired of living like this, I have been through so much that I have an exaggerated response to stress. I am currently taking meds for anxiety and when they wear off I can feel the throat tightning, heart racing, shaky all over feeling. Beings that we are both church leaders I have no one to talk to about this, so I am so glad to find this forum. Thank you so much for being here. Oh yes, I also have him in internet counseling, as in he emails a counselor, the counselor lets me know if he hasn't made contact in more than 3 days. We have tried the face to face counseling and he just says all the right things to get out of there as soon as possible. I am hoping that he will be more honest with someone he doesn't have to face.
|
tropicalstorm
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 66 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 01:00 pm |
|
You should involve your church, especially if he is in leadership.
The things an addict will say to their spouse are NOTHING like what an addict will say to another adult. I wasted years listening to things a four year old wouldn't believe when quested about activities, etc.
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 07:15 pm |
|
Well my consequence is as long as he is seeking help I will be quiet. It will be a huge upset if he steps down from praise as he does it all. We can hardly get away because there is only a handful of musicians and not many that will lead out. He organizes all the music, leads out at practice and at church, does the music power point, as well as other activities. From what I understand about 40 percent of church members anywhere are sexually addicted. I agree he should not be in leadership, but I also think it might be a great consequence, as he loves it so much.
I told him this morning that I did not believe he was looking for my emails with her name. And I stuck to my guns. I also talked with him about why he was acting funny when leaving a message on you tube and I walked in. HE said all sorts of things a 4 year old wouldn't believe. Then he got angry and acted like he was going to throw the keyboard. I calmly told him if he was doing what was right, he would not be so angry. He has since left to go workout, he asked me to go but I just didn't feel like it.
I am kinda sorry I confronted him as now he knows everyword is being recorded and he will be more careful. I also sent him an email with a message from this board that Tall Mike had written. Tall Mike had said that he wanted to quit but he also didn't want to give it up either. I am hoping when my hubby reads it he will realize it sounds like him.
He is currently doing the email counseling. I think I just need to hand it over to God. It is just so painful when we get along great except for this issue, we do everything together, we are intimate and have been meeting each others love languages. He tells me I am beautiful and he loves me. I think I might understand it more if there was a problem.......
|
tropicalstorm
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 66 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 08:38 pm |
|
I didn't really get to answer as I would have liked when I posted previously.
This is thin ice and understand that I am seriously trying NOT to be offensive to you.
Remember - I am a wife in the same position.
By keeping their secret - we enable them to continue acting the way that they do. Secrets thrive and grow in the darkness of silence.
I kept quiet for a very very long time.
When he told me they had had a meeting about him moving into leadership I had a check in my spirit. I respect my church and my leadership far too much to allow him to serve in leadership when I know for a FACT that he is not living as he should. Your husband is responsible for ushering in the presence of God through worship.
He's not very accountable - email counseling is not even face to face.
Exposure would be costly - absolutely - but so would continuing on in silence.
You don't need to "out" him to the world, but you should talk with your pastor.
It's sad how we allow them to treat us - really - we're so worn out and worn down.
I have decided I am highly blessed and favored by God and whatever happens Blessed is the name of God.
YOU need support and so does your husband.
I still think you should seek God about going to your pastor.
|
junkyardboy
Member
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 08:58 pm |
|
what an appropriate title for this thread.....because i don't get it either.
if what i am about to say about this sounds harsh than so be it.
are we worshipping the same God as He reveals Himself in scripture?
when i see the God of the bible He is not interested in empty worship and praise.
time after time after time He begs, cajoles, warns Isreal to turn from their wickedness.
the old testament is a history of God's grace and warning to turn from evil and come before Him with a repentent heart and what happens to people and nations that refuse to listen.
i am perplexed at a church body that would accept your husbands open sin and allow him to continue in leadership just as i am perplexed that you would enable him to live this lie.
lest we think the concept of purity and judgement is old fashioned let us not forget the Holy Spirit killed Ananias and Sapphira for their lies in the early days of the church.
i thank God that i belonged to a church body that disciplined me for my sin. i have felt the hard but loving hand of God on my life and God has brought me to the point i know His glory and grace.
do not continue to cover this shame. do not put your church thru this shame.
if your church tolerates this, find another church.
and above all, do not be a partaker of your husbands sin by covering it up and enabling him.
praying that God will be glorified.
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
|
Suzi
Member
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 08:59 pm |
|
Certainly Praise and Worship in a church is essential... I believe it's actually essential in our private lives too. But, God isn't desperate for it. He doesn't NEED our worship... WE NEED to worship.
Don't confuse a church setting with what God wants from us.
There are several instances where God punished a group because of the hidden sin of a few in the congregation. How will God be able to bless this church when the leadership is hiding sin in this way?
By using the reasoning that he is ESSENTIAL to the worship and it would be a blow to the church, well, it's actually enabling him to continue to cover his sin. I agree it doesn't need to be made totally public, but he has to understand that there are consequences to his sin.
Bottom line... what matters most? Pleasing God or pleasing men?
My heart goes out to you... my H has struggled for 10 years... and he has had leadership positions too. It's very tough to deal with when the addict is also very gifted and very essential to the success of a specific part of a ministry. But I often think back to the church of the first century... They had praise and worship, too...
So we can praise and worship God without regard to all the modern day "necessities". It's the heart... it's the unity... it's the heart-worship that God is looking for... not a performance.
I will be praying for you and your husband... I understand how devastating this is....
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 09:27 pm |
|
Wow I am amazed at the responses. I know in my heart that I wouldn't want a person who is sexually addicted to lead out. In fact my hubby and I were key in getting a pastor of ours removed from his position when he had an affair with the head elders wife. First we went to him one on one like it says in the bible. Then we took another pastor, but he wouldn't listen. My hubby stated at that time that God doesn't like people messing around with his church. I am wondering if my hubby just doesn't think he has a problem? Do you think it would help to have him read some of your responses?
Our church does not take this type of thing lightly they are fairly particular about who they will allow to lead.
I have hidden this for years because I get so confused. I always wonder what i did to cause this? Where I failed? Is some of it normal? Sometimes I do not know. Other times it seems very clear.
Thank you for your responses. I will pray about it.
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 09:34 pm |
|
Peter, in response to your statement
"i am perplexed at a church body that would accept your husbands open sin and allow him to continue in leadership just as i am perplexed that you would enable him to live this lie."
The Church body does not know. When they reinstated him he was on track. We all know that doesn't last forever. We were also in transition of getting a new pastor. So in the shuffle all was forgotten. He is as spiritual or even more than anyone in church. His prayers and worship are very inspiring and Godly. That is why I wonder if he just doesn't think it is wrong? Usually if he is doing something he thinks is wrong he has a hard time praying and will ask others to do it. Either that or maybe he is vascillating back and forth. I do not know.
Thank you for your brutal honesty. I appreciate it. It helps me be strong.
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 09:40 pm |
|
Tropical storm in response to your statement:
"When he told me they had had a meeting about him moving into leadership I had a check in my spirit. I respect my church and my leadership far too much to allow him to serve in leadership when I know for a FACT that he is not living as he should. Your husband is responsible for ushering in the presence of God through worship."
I would have never allowed him to move into a leadership position. I even counseled him about working in the teens department when he seemed to be interested in another 18 year old at work. I told him I would not want my daughter going to church meeting with a sexual addict. The problem is he was already in the leadership position when I found it again. Yes I am guilty for not outing him at that point. The only thing I can say is tha this is so confusing and it is so hard to know what to do.
I appreciate your comments as well. They are all very good. I wish I would have found this board years ago.
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 09:42 pm |
|
Suzi
I found your post very thought provoking. I was expecting support from this forum and I am finding guidance as well.
Thank you so much!
|
junkyardboy
Member
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 11:09 pm |
|
dear hope45,
we have been very honest with you, even brutually so.
i believe the way you have reacted shows you have a heart and soul that loves our wonderful Lord and Saviour.
i too, entered an adulterous affair that resulted in divorce and the loss of a leadership position. while there has been forgiveness and restoration of fellowship, i believe i have forever surrendered any leadership positions.
your husband has placed you and your family at an especially vulnerable and dangerous position.
satan would love nothing better than to embarrass God, destroy you and your family and cause great harm to the church thru your husbands sin.
perhaps it is not yet necessary for the entire church to become involved but i would believe that to show a repentant heart on his part, your husband needs to step down.
if he is unwilling to do so i would ask that you prayerfully consider forcing the issue.
i pray for your courage and strength in the difficult days ahead.
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
|
gaylon
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 237 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |   |
|
Posted: Sun May 6th, 2007 11:16 pm |
|
Hope45 wrote: .. I always wonder what i did to cause this? Where I failed? Is some of it normal? Sometimes I do not know...
Counseling 101 -- you did not cause this. You did not fail... Your husband (like each of us) is responsible for his own actions. This seems to be the normal response for a wife, but it is Satan's lie to you, to try to bring you down into hopelessness. My wife definitely had those feelings at first. And, from here, I'll let the ladies take over, as I'm sure they will...
|
truthseeker
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 846 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon May 7th, 2007 06:54 pm |
|
Hi Hope45,
Welcome to BG. Sorry you need to be here.
Gaylon was right on target. This addictive personality likely has roots in childhood, long before you met. I, of course, know nothing of his family background, but there are great articles about roots of addiction at
http://www.pureintimacy.org
No, when you look at God's Word, it is not confusing, or difficult to know what to do, just really tough to do it.
While it only limits some outlets for acting out, not the roots, computer access needs to be limited or eliminated for now. I have heard of some that benefitted from internet counselling, or courses such as Setting Captives Free, but face to face, with a christian counsellor experienced in SA, is what's really needed. If he is seeking any type of visual, physical, or emotional intimacy with women, that is adultery. He needs to develop healthy friendships with christian brothers to whom he could be accountable.
Praying for you...
TruthSeeker
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 06:38 am |
|
Peter, I do love the Lord with all my heart and soul and mind. He is the only reason I have survived this far and he has kept my marriage together. Even those this road has not been easy to travel, I must admit that I grow closer and closer to Jesus each time. I consult God with every desicion I make. I try to give the anxiety over to him but I am human and I muct be holding on to it for some reason.
Gaylon, Thank you so much for your thoughts. I am afraid even though I have read that before, there is always that nagging thought of "why wasn't I enough?" or "I tried so hard" or I am getting old and will be traded in for a newer model.
I am prayerfully considering my next actions. I have been writing him emails with thoughts such as these. I know you will all say face to face is better but he has told me before that when he feels in trouble all he hears is "blah blah blah". This way he has a resource to return to. I am thinking about using the previous pastor (that had an affair with head elder) as an example then moving into a comparison. This will affect me as well, as I get so much from the praise music. He has the best voice I have ever heard. I also feel like it leaves him open for more temptation as praise is a postitive way to fill his time and he spends so much time on it. He claims he has not looked at porn for over a month. He has not contacted the girl for at least 3 weeks. His attempts in the email did not pan out. I feel as if we are all tempted but if find the way that God has provided to escape that it is a good thing. What do you all feel about allowing him to stay in the praise as long as the addiction does not rear its ugly head?
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 06:41 am |
|
Truthseeker I agree that to get rid of anything that is causing temptation would be a great thing. Unfortunately he is a very outgoing, caring, hunorous guy and women ADORE him. So to totally remove himself from temptation he would have to go live as a hermit. Thanks for the website address. I will go check it out.
|
truthseeker
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Tue May 16th, 2006 |
| Location: | New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 846 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 07:24 am |
|
Hi Hope45,
You asked, "What do you all feel about allowing him to stay in the praise as long as the addiction does not rear its ugly head?"
What we feel really doesn't matter. First of all, it did rear its ugly head. Second, we are not the leadership of your church, and it is really their decision to make. It is my personal opinion that you are too close to the situation to make an unbiased decision, not that you do not want to, but that it simply isn't possible. Sometimes addicts must lose, or nearly lose, something of great importance to them in order for them to get serious about recovery. Counselling may start online, but if it does not lead him in the direction of being able to confront his sin with a counsellor and/or christian brother face to face, he is still lost in his fantasy world where everyone thinks he's terrific, perhaps including you. If he can only allow himself to feel affirmed by people, never the flawed human that he is, that we all are, he will always run to his addiction for affirmation when something doesn't feel right, instead of sharing the burden of his uncomfortable feelings with you or a friend.
I was not suggesting that he become a hermit, but that the avenue of the computer be narrowed significantly or blocked for now.
What would he do with his time if not in the spotlight? Perhaps seek God with all of his heart, soul, mind and strength. Perhaps invest more time in nurturing your marriage. If gifted in that way, perhaps write lyrics and/or music to be introduced, annonymously, by the praise team, or presented himself when he has more definitively demonstrated success in sobriety.
It is crucial that he find his significance in Jesus Christ, not in man's opinion of him, and certainly not in unfaithful behavior. The apostle Paul clearly teaches that leaders aught to be the husband of one wife. Granted, he was not specifying praise team leaders, but those did not exist as such at that time. I believe that the principle is applicable.
I remind you again that his sin does not reflect on you, unless, of course, you choose to cover up/enable it.
Praying for both of you...
TruthSeeker
|
Suzi
Member
|
Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 05:33 pm |
|
Hope45,
On the home page of this website is a link to an article called "Sexual Sobriety is not enough" http://blazinggrace.org/Sexualsobriety.htm
And I think it's an article ALL we wives would LOVE for our H's to get!
It isn't just ENOUGH that my H is "behaving"... for me, what really gives me any hope for security in the marriage is when he WANTS to not just "be good", but wants to go beyond and capture the real meaning of the JOY of obedience and the REWARD of sexual purity. Not just in our marriage, but as a reflection of his faithfulness and obedience to God and out of a grateful heart!
Too many times we tiptoe right at the edge of sin... not willing to forsake it and FLEE, but just keeping our toes dry, so to speak. When we do that, we are at risk for a subtle movement of outside forces to pull us in... kind of like when you are laying in a safe place on the beach and next thing you know, the tide is coming in and you get splashed with a surprise wave. If we are allergic to sea water, we need to stay FAR AWAY from the edge of the high tide mark.
So it is with sin, we need WIDE boundaries. Only GOD really knows your H's heart and if his leadership motive is truly for the praise of God, or for the praise of men, or in this case, women. I feel this is a real danger zone for most people in ministry. Is Satan NOT the great deceiver? So? Wouldn't it be just so like the enemy to capitalize on a person's excellences within ministry and cultivate that appetite for the positive attention and feedback from the crowd. How difficult it must be to always be excelling at praising God and bringing worship to Him without allowing it to get to our ego... hey.. doesn't that sound familiar?
Like in Ezekial 28 and Isaiah 14 which some of us believe is a description and picture of Lucifer, the anonted cherub whose job was to lead "the sons of God" in heavenly worship of the Creator God? Who began to want to bring glory to himself instead of God? He was gifted! Covered with beauty, every precious stone! He was made of musical instruments (tabrets and pipes), and he was created in perfection. BUT it got to him! And he began to want the glory for himself. Even a 3rd of the angels fell to follow this gifted worship leader.
Ezekiel 28:13-15 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
So, I think there is reason to allow the leadership of the church to help in this situation. They are ultimately accountable for the sheep in their flock. In my heart, I really believe they need to have this information.
Sometimes, Hope, what I have found is this.. I have had to allow things to get much worse than I ever wanted... in order for things to get better. God will not be mocked. If this isn't dealt with on this level, and your H secretly continues on, I really believe eventually it will only escalate. This kind of thing just doesn't "go away". It can be repressed and suppressed. But exposure seems to be at least one effective way of allowing an addict to really have to face what needs to be done and for HIM/HER to make the choice, right or wrong.
My heart goes out to you... and many prayers, too!
Suzi
PS. I realize not all of us might believe the same way about the Scriptures quoted. I really do not feel it would be appropriate for me to cause a theological problem here. I am fairly new here and the last thing I want to do is cause a "discussion" about interpretations. PM me if you need to.
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
|
junkyardboy
Member
|
Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 07:09 pm |
|
hope45,
what wise counsel you are receiving from truthseeker and suzi.
i believe in your own heart you know it to be true otherwise you would not be on this forum.
if your husband's heart has truely changed you would know it without any doubt.
your church has already gone thru the heartache and horror of a member of leadership being caught up in sexual sin.
the scripture is clear that that which is done in the darkness will be revealed to the light. God is not mocked.
though it may be a difficult thing, if your husband does not see the wickedness and refuses to step down, for the glory of God you must be willing to take this to the elders of the church.
this all may cause problems and heartache but your obedience will glorify God and will be honored by Him. it will be far less damaging than if this sin runs its natural course.
praying for your strength and courage,
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
|
Hope45
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu May 10th, 2007 06:35 am |
|
Thank you so much for your brutal honesty. It really does put things in perspective. I wrote an email to my hubby and am just waiting for the right time to present it. I would never want to do anything that would be against God's wishes. We are both getting bible studies and even though I have been a christian all my life, gone to church and church school I am learning so many new things. Thank you once again!
|
Current time is 01:28 pm | Page: 1 2   |
|
|
|
RSS