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raVen
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Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 06:02 pm |
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I have a question regarding what kind/type of porn cyber sex and webcam interaction and the ages involved.
I have been involved with a man for over 5 yrs now and about 2 and half yrs ago I discoved he was heavily involved in PORN ,CYBERESX. I was very upset and devastated that he was this way as I had no idea or saw no signs.
What concerned me alot at the time was that many of his MSN contacts were under 18 and 16 yrs of age. Many had webcams and many had sent him pictures. I know from text saved on comp that he knew the ages of these girls. I also found pictures that many had sent him. One girl has braces and had not yet fully formed breasts. I was so disturbed by this but at the time all of this was so ovewhelming and upsetting I could not even think straight. He had lots of adult type porn and contacts as well but the younger stuff disturbed me more. Sites like Barely Legal and sites of similar nature were book marked.
I had confronted him and he has now been in recovery the full two yrs and told me that the fact he had young ppl was just b/c he had no judgment when in his addiction ,NOT because thats what he liked or was into. To be fair he has not been involved with any Porn or computer activities as far I know. He has for the most part done it alone ,attending very few meetings and then getting a sponser but he only ever called them once. he does no reading or study and has just stopped the sex addiction activities.
Should I be concerned. I live in Canada and they are now arresting men just for interacting with a person under the age of 16 in an innapropriate manner online. Should I have turned him in at the time...?? I love him but I am sickened by him and I am so confused.
I am not sure where I should be posting this but I am desperate for an answer or an opinion.
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Barb
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Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 06:56 pm |
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Dear raVen
Yes...all the red flags are there. First, it sounds like he is dabbling in child porn from your description, which is punishable by the law. Second, if he has had contact w/ these under age girls, he is heading down a terrible road not only for himself but endangering the very wealth fare of these young people. Third, he does not sound like he's in recovery to me. He cannot do this alone-in isolation. I think that you need to seek immediate help in confronting this-he needs to be stopped before he hurts an innocent child. Think not of him but the children involved!
Very Concerned
Barb
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TimM
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Posted: Fri Mar 16th, 2007 07:29 pm |
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raVen,
Welcome. Sorry you need to be here.
Yes, you should be concerned. I don't know what the law says in your country and province about cybersex with minors, but very likely what he is doing is illegal. If you have access to his computer and are not reporting it to the authorities, then it is possible you could be prosecuted as an accessory. Or you and he might both be guilty of possessing child porn. You might need to talk to a lawyer to be sure.
A possible course of action would be to turn the computer over to the authorities. This might help them to locate the purveyers and the victims and to act accordingly. If I were his sponsor, I would encourage him to think about this as part of a 9th step.
You should also be extremely concerned about whether you know the full truth. We addicts lie often and well, to ourselves and to others. In particular, I'd encourage you to think about 2 things.
(1) Do you really know everything he has done? It is common that we disclose a part of our behaviors and hold back the most shameful and upsetting parts. If you know he has been engaging in cybersex with minors, then there is a real possibility that's the tip of the iceberg. Many (but certainly not all) addicts eventually escalate to acting out in real life.
(2) How do you know he has quit? As someone who struggled for 30 years to quit on my own, and who has heard from many others who tried and failed at this, the story of someone who just gets it together and stops, no big deal, seems hugely suspicious. To be blunt, my wife believed that about me, too, more than once, when all that had happened was that I had learned to lie and to hide better. I'm sure he feels terrible about his actions and that he really wants to stop, but I don't know people who have just gone to a few meetings, made a phone call, and been all better. It doesn't normally work anything like that. I know lots of people who have been to a few meetings and then disappeared again to suffer some more until they got ready really to quit.
For most of us addicts, the addiction is a response to deep issues within us. We are alone and afraid and hiding from ourselves and from others. It takes a lot of work with other people - other addicts in 12-step meetings, professional counselors, family and friends - to help us deal with the underlying emptiness that manifests in addiction. For most of us, this is the central moral and spiritual struggle an the central failure in our lives. We don't just lay it aside and move one. We have to become new people in fundamental ways. It's not a subtle change. Has he made this change?
Sorry, I need to go teach at this point, but there's a quick answer anyway. In my opinion, there are red flags all over the place here. Do think carefuly, and do be cautious.
Be well,
Tim M.
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raVen
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 02:30 am |
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Well I discussed it again and he told me that he has been sober for almost 2 yrs with no lapses and that while in his addiction he did things he was very ashamed of and would never had been drawn to in his real life. He again said having cyber sex or accepting pictures was only from at the youngest 15 yrs of age and he did not realize this till afterwards. He told me most of them were 17 or so and many more much older. He maintians he had and has no desire for that age group only that his addiction clouded his judgement and his boundries.
What should I do , I am confused and don't know if I should worry or just let this go. I took your comments into consideration ( Barb and TimM) but he seems to have an answer for everything. I wish he would talk to some one and have them assess what he says ...is this possible
I am just so sick over all of this ....I can hardly stand it 
Please advise me and if there is a contact or someone I can talk to or have him communicate with please pass it on to me .....thanks
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 03:46 am |
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raVen,
It's awkward to know how to react to your request and to his claims. We know the story through you, and nobody wants to walk into a situation where we end up in between you and your BF. It would be easy for us to misunderstand and cause trouble.
Also, as an addict myself, I am cynical about how much we hide and how much we hurt people and how much we delude ourselves and the people around us. I am also a big advocate of 12-step programs of recovery, and from that standpoint, I'm suspicious of people who just do it on their own easily. You have to take all this into consideration when reading my comments.
Some things I'm still thinking about:
- I don't know Canadian law and I do know it varies from province to province, but 17 is illegal in the US. "Mostly around 17" still means "mostly illegal" in this country. What you describe would leave him subject here to prison and to being listed as a sex offender.
- Should you stay together and should there be children, will you ever be able to trust him with them? Should you?
- We do a lot of minimizing and a lot of denial; and we often do a lot of outright lying and crazy wishful thinking about what might be the case. I would therefore still be worried about whether you know everything and whether he has really quit. Especially in somebody who has engaged in significant illegal activity involving minors, this isn't usually an easy addiction to overcome. I know many people who are multiply addicted, and I don't think I know anyone who thinks that recovery from SA was easier than recovery from alcoholism or cocaine addiction. So his story just seems too neat to me.
- I wonder if there is a way to "trust but verify," as Reagan said of the Soviets? If you approached him without warning, would he be wiling to give you any system and e-mail passwords to any computers he uses, and to allow you or a coputer techie look at e-mail accounts, study browser histories, check out cookies, and examine the machines with file recovery tools? Would he allow you to install key loggers or accountability software on all computers he uses? Or alternatively, could you install such software surreptitiously and monitor what he's doing now? Given the fact that he knows he has betrayed you and that he knows he now has no right to be trusted, I would regard an unwillingness to allow this sort of investigation as a huge red flag.
- Some SOs ask their partners to take lie detector tests. I don't know if I believe these things, and the tests cost between $500-$1000, but if doing this added to your trust, it might be worth it.
- I'm not aware of any sort of psychological professional to whom you could send him to verify his story. You or he could certainly get counseling under the national health plan, but I would assume their job is mostly helping people who want help, not figuring out when people are lying to them. You might learn something that way, though. But you know, I've also heard stories of addicts lying to their wives, sponsors and therapists until being picked up by the police.
- How does he handle your questioning? Is he sympathetic and simply honest, or is he angry or evasive? The latter attitude would again be a big red flag for me.
- Finally, some sources of more information and support: All of Patrick Carnes' books are excellent. People usually start with "Out of the Shadows." There are several organizations for partners of sex addicts, patterned on Alanon. Three of them are COSA, COSLAA, and SAnon. You might get good insight from the women there. There is also a lot of good information on the Partners' board at http://www.no-porn.com. Be cautious at no-porn, because many of the women there are extremely sensitive about anything involving minors. If you mention 17 year olds there, you may get pretty roundly condemned for not leaving or turning him in to the police at once, and people may contact local authorities themselves. The women there have a lot of insight and wisdom, though, and they can offer you a voice of experience people like me don't have.
Read and think hard. Staying with him leaves you in a complicated situation with a lot of risks.
Wish I could say something more directly and obviously enlightening.
Tim M.
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raVen
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 05:31 am |
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Thanks TimM for your reply
I completely understand that it is hard for you to comment given that this is a forum and the details of my side, I appreciate what you have replied though so far.
Yes what worries me the most is that his response is angry and evasive more than anything. I have his old computer from when he stopped all activity ( his words not mine) and got sober ( again his definition not mine) I kept it somewhere b/c I knew it had all the history of about 4 or 5 yrs of his activity that could be accessed if need be. I never erased cookies and many files were left intact. My gut told me to keep it.
It is highly unlikely he has been on my computer doing anything he should not, but again I had no idea people could do the things he was involved in. I was very naive about cyber sex and porn access online. It is even to this day hard for a person like me to understand this activity ....I really feel so stupid to never have guessed or been concerned....
I have asked him to do 2 things for me
#1 I asked him tonight to call his sponsor and speak with him about this issue specifically
#2 To post on this forum his story and his side. I asked him to be as detailed and thorough as appropriate for this forum. I would like to see the feed back he gets from people here.
I have an 11 yr old daughter from my first marriage and so yes this is a concern.
He has in the last few weeks decided to really begin getting serious about his recovery i.e.: meetings, connecting, reading, and 12 step. I have had many failed promises in this area. He claims to have stayed sober, but doing any recovery work has been close to non existent. He is very irresponsible with his finances and life skills. He has let me down so much just with how he takes care (or does not) of his life and responsibities.
I think he knows that to have failed doing this has caused a huge rift in our relationship and any healing process for me. We share a house but have separate bedrooms as the longer this slack attitude towards recovery has gone on the more I have withdrawn and refused to be intimate. I know I have emotionally withdrawn from this relationship more in the last month than in any of the last 2 yrs...I am just getting so tired and confused .and disappointed.
The "young girls" issue is just one that concerns me.....is he not acting out in any way now....I simply do not know. He maintains that he does not and that he never has triggers and those images, women or any innuendo toward porn or nudity /sex only upset him and make him uncomfortable. I am really not sure if I am able to stay in this relationship as it is...but his attitude about recovery and what it means has pretty much brought it to an all time low. I checked out the Patrick Carnes books from the library and extended them 3 times....he never read or completed anything about them.....that was 2 yrs ago
thanks
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geeky_student
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 06:39 am |
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Dear Raven,
I understand how hard and heartbreaking it is for you to post all this. I hope this can be of help for you:
http://www.no-porn.com/
http://www.porn-free.org/
Do pray with him and study the Word with him. Encourage him to do his part--men are commanded to be loving and caring to their wives and take of care of the wife's body as his own body (one flesh). Encourage him to fully use all the blessings God has given him--not trample on them or waste them or using them for deeds of darkness. Remind him that God holds us accountable for the wonderful gift He has given each and every one of us--His only begotton Son, Jesus.
God is with us, let us listen to Him and obey Him! 
I will pray for you
Keep clean!
Last edited on Sun Mar 18th, 2007 06:39 am by geeky_student
____________________
For God, for her, for my parents, for own good.
tip: when tempted, think of God, think of that special someone you love.
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raVen
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 07:18 am |
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Thanks geeky_student
I appreciate your support , websites and kind words
raVen ^*^
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forthelord33
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Posted: Sun Mar 18th, 2007 04:27 pm |
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Jesus is waiting right at the door of your heart. He is ready to take the weight off your shoulders and give you rest. Jesus will give you all the answers that you need but first you need some rest. Remember, Jesus wants nothing more than to love and protect you. So, let the warmth of God's love, melt the chains that keep you bound to fear. By accepting him as your Lord and Savior, he awaits your prayers, any time you need divine intervention. So, drink from the well of Jesus. The water is sweet and so refreshing.
God bless,
Marc
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Barb
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Posted: Mon Mar 19th, 2007 04:26 pm |
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Dear raVen
My suggestion is to find a Godly sexual addiction therapist in your area and posit these questions to him/her. I know first hand that what a sex addict says cannot always be taken at face value. It is by there action that you can judge their seriousness and commitment to healing and restoration; this is the only true
quantifiable measure of surety that we have. If you need help locating someone in your area, I might be able to help you. Also, New Life Ministries is a valuable resource to start with: http://www.newlife.com
Praying for your peace over this!
Barb
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