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splendor
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 12:51 am |
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| Do those of you who keep recommending the ShelleyLubben sight think that it is healthy for sex addicts and SEX WORKERS to be in a forum together? I realize that the intent of the site is good, and from what I read the women there seem to be geniunely remorseful and Christian, but don't you think that is playing with fire? You are conversing with virtually the same women you act/acted out with. I would be very angry if my husband went there. He used these women in porn, escort agencies and massage parlors and strip clubs. They also have their photos posted, although they are just head shots. That makes the connection more real, and although many are in recovery,others are not. I think a man speaking with a known sex worker, be it EX sex worker or not, is going to have fantasies about who he is writing to. Does this make sense? Is this not dabbling with temptation?
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 04:14 am |
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What you say makes sense to me, although I wish it didn't. I found Lubben's site early in my recovery, and I found it inspiring to read about someone who had turned her life around as she has. I also recognized the dangers to me of frequenting the site or of attempting to open any communication with her. I admire Lubben a lot, but for me it is safer not to visit her site again, and I haven't.
Just one data point, of course. For others, it may be perfectly fine, but I am fearful of trusting myself that far.
Tim M.
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gaylon
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 06:37 am |
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I've listened to a few of the weekly shows she's done with Mike on blazinggrace radio. She has a family, and is on a very successful crusade to educate about pornography. However, for the same reasons Tim mentions, I've decided not to visit her site. And, apparently there's a site with very close to the same spelling that is a porn site. With my luck, I'd hit that one first... But, I don't fault her for anything... I'm in no position for that ;-) And I admire her determination for good...
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SomeGuy
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 09:30 am |
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I've never heard of the site, but I have heard of the xxxchurch website and I have avoided it like the plague. I hope they are successful in combating porn, but things like xxchurch and (from what you write) ShelleyLubben, just wouldn't do me a bit of good.
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splendor
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 10:08 am |
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| I agree that Shelley Lubben has turned her life around and that she has only good intentions. The site however has many other sex workers in all different stages of recovery and non-recovery stages. I think it is a great place for others who have been in the adult entertainment industry to post, but certainly not recovering SA's. I also feel these women still feel a need to validate their worth through their looks by posting their photos, even if it is a headshot. JMO
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 02:34 pm |
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That stuff I don't know about. A couple of years ago it was only Shelley and there was no place one could post there; I haven't been back lately.
Tim M.
Last edited on Sun Feb 4th, 2007 02:35 pm by
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Gettinbetter
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 07:59 am |
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I recommend her site highly. Not for the forums, but for anyone to read her testimony and listen to her give her testimony on the many radio shows and television shows she's been on.
If you read her testimony you will find out the truth behind the lies of pornography. You will discover it took her 8 long years for God to free her from her addictions to cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, and the horrifying memories of her past life.
You will read of the beautiful actresses you see there and find out that they were often throwing up before or after their "scenes" in those wonderful movies those of us addicted to pornography used to enjoy. You will find they were all either drunk or high on cocaine or other drugs. You will hear of the heartbreaking suicide rate.
And you will begin to realize that woman you are watching is someone's daughter. A child of God being abused, sodomized, degraded, ravaged for our sick pleasure.
It strips the movies of all glamour and sickens the heart to hear it from someone who went through it.
You will hear her beg you to stop viewing pornography, to stop victimizing these women by indulging your sick fanasy by watching them "perform" lies in Satan's workshop.
If you go there looking for the truth, you will find the truth. If you go looking for something else, you will find it.....if not there, then somewhere else.
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splendor
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 12:06 pm |
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Getting Better, the point is not whether there are good things to be learned on the sight. I believe there is great benefit from seeing the truth about the lives behind the adult entertainment industry, in fact, I told my husband that it might be good for him to read about the reality "behind the scenes" of porn. My husband is 3 1/2 years sober. He agrees that posting and hanging out over there is playing with fire. That is the point- it's dangerous for the addict.
How many men would not find it titallating to be posting with porn stars? It invites fantasizing and then the slippery slope begins. If it represents no problem to you, that's great. Others here are struggling and don't need even the tiniest temptation to fall.
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shale
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 02:22 pm |
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Something else to consider - the industry has taken a real turn over the past decade or so. At one time it seemed important to project the image that the actresses wanted to be there, wanted what was going on - despite the behind the scenes reality.
The currently prevalant themes involve purposeful degradation & humiliation of women - not as a means to an end, but as the end. It is the humiliation & suffering that is presented as stimulating. It seems that many producers don't want the actresses to appear to be having a good time.
P turns women into objects for addicts. The behind the scenes reality just confirms that, yes, they are objects & their feelings, desires are unimportant.
This is stuff that many addicts don't need to be exposed to.
Don't get me wrong - I support her site & her ministry. I also agree that one needs to tread with caution there.
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growingfaith
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 03:44 pm |
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| I think I agree with splendor when she proposes that Shelly's sight might be helpful for victims stuck in the sex industry who want a way out, but is not as useful for sex addicts who were on the other end of the transaction. Much the same way that in many twelve step programs, you don't get a list of phone numbers of people from the opposite sex to call, you probably shouldn't be seeking out contact with ex-porn stars in your recovery from sex addiction. I think the most important aspect of my recovery has been my ability to make friends with men and talk with men about emotional issues. I used to mask my flirtations with women as ways to discuss emotional things - when I had a wife the whole time! Now I can talk openly with my wife and with men about my recovery. I think the other side of the coin can be best facilitated by women - i.e., Shelly and other women helping other porn actresses, escorts, and strippers.
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RickH
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 02:39 am |
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For me, at my "stage" of recovery, the bottom line is stay away.
Rick
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Suzi
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 03:56 am |
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I just heard of her site through a posting here and when I went to check it out, I was very impressed. It appeared to be genuine and there was a lot of good information there.
However, hmmmm.... not ready to send my husband there... 
I haven't really had time to thoroughly investigate it, but I do know that one article I read (very good article!) had a link imbedded in it that took me to a site that totally confused me. I couldn't tell if it was pro/con.
So, I support most of what I did get to read there, but still have my reservations about whether it's something I would feel comfortable with my H going there.
Just my 2 cents!
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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1959
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 06:37 pm |
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| If anyone read this, I am a memeber of Shelley Lubben forum. Yes, you have ex-porn addicts, porn addicts, and ex-sex workers going to the same site. She do not allow men to post (or should not post) in the ex-sex workers forum. As for me, the site has been very helpful because of the testimonies of both Shelley Lubben and those on her site. I don't see her as a "ex-porn star", but a fellow sister in the Lord. I will agree that if going to this site will cause some to have triggers or fall, they should not go. I hope at some point in their healing or after being healed they can view the site and not have set backs. Just my two cents.
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Mark37
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Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 07:13 pm |
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splendor wrote: I agree that Shelley Lubben has turned her life around and that she has only good intentions. The site however has many other sex workers in all different stages of recovery and non-recovery stages. I think it is a great place for others who have been in the adult entertainment industry to post, but certainly not recovering SA's. I also feel these women still feel a need to validate their worth through their looks by posting their photos, even if it is a headshot. JMO
I know exactly what you are saying. I believe that these women have only had their looks to validate themselves and to give themselves a sense of false self-esteem. On the one hand they don't want to look like squares. Like Holy Rollers. On the other hand do we stoop down and comprimise how we should present ourselves to reach out to others? That is a special group that they are reaching out to. Did you ever see the website jcsgirls.com? It is down now but you can put it in your search engine and get Heather Veitch site and her my space blog. She also frequents porn conventions and strip clubs. Do you think that is right?
1 Timothy 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
Modesty will guide our choice of apparel.
Articles of clothing to be avoided include: Dresses reaching to the knees or trailing on the floor, low necklines, low backs, sleeveless blouses, transparent material, tight apparel, and unhealthy and ill fitting footwear. Following fashion is a fruitless occupation.
Simplicity and godliness are beautiful in God's site.
1 Peter 3:3,4
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
The flowers are a good example of the beauty that God loves.
Luke 12:27
Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
The Lord intends a clear distinction be made between men and women.
1 Corinthians 11:14,15
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Daughters of the heavenly King, members of the royal family, will feel a burden of responsibility to attain to a higher life, that they may be brought into close connection with heaven and work in unison with the Redeemer of the world. Those who are engaged in this work will not be satisfied with the fashions and follies which absorb the mind and affections of women in these last days. If they are indeed daughters of God they will be partakers of the Divine nature. They will be stirred with deepest pity, as was their Divine Redeemer, as they see corrupting influences in society. they will be in sympathy with Christ, and in their sphere, as they have ability and opportunity, wil work to save perishing souls as Christ worked in his exalted shere for the benefit of man.
Yes, I believe Shelley and others are sincere in what they do. None of us are perfect. Perhaps in their ways of doing things, its the only way for them to draw this special group to Christ, but like I said we must be careful not to comprimise with the world and use unclean methods to represent who are and Christ.
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TimM
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Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 07:48 pm |
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Last edited on Mon Mar 12th, 2007 12:45 am by
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truthseeker
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 03:16 pm |
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Hi Mark37,
You said, "Articles of clothing to be avoided include: Dresses reaching to the knees or trailing on the floor, low necklines, low backs, sleeveless blouses, transparent
material, tight apparel, and unhealthy and ill fitting footwear. Following fashion is a fruitless occupation." I'm curious as to where and/or how you derived this list, and I'm not sure I understand the dress length suggestions. Are you saying as short as the knee and above? Other than safety in walking, especially stairs, what does a floor length dress have to do with modesty? What does footware have to do with modesty? "Low" and "tight" are very subjective terms, as could be "transparent," varying from one woman to another woman wearer, and one man to another viewer. Does a top have to have some portion of sleeve verticle, or are you talking about spaghetti straps? Should we find antique swimware, or avoid beach/pool altogether? And this doesn't even mention shorts? Forbidden, fingertip length? You need not explain further, as my main point is that the list resembles legalism to me. Are you telling us that you have never had your eyes linger too long or had less than appropriate thoughts about a woman who was thus atired? (No answer needed.) Just where does our responsibility as women to dress modestly end, and where does the responsibility of men not to lust begin? And how is it that men dress that cause women to lust? Please understand that I am not saying that anything should go, but that defining it concretely is very difficult, in my opinion alone.
TruthSeeker
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Suzi
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Posted: Mon Mar 12th, 2007 04:28 pm |
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Very difficult subject... and boy, am I glad I don't have a teenage daughter to deal with right now!
Having come from a background of legalism where hair length, skirt length, and culottes instead of pants were all important, I am so glad to be free of that. There was a lot of IMMODEST activity in spite of being "dressed modestly". Surely that does NOT mean anything goes! But modesty is also an attitude... And an attitude that seeks to draw attention more to the "inner man" than to the exterior. An attitude that seeks to glorify God, not push the boundaries.
Even in jewelry and makeup, there is a way to enhance our features, or... there is a way to draw attention in a flirty way.
I am with Truthseeker, having never heard a skirt too long being a problem (what ARE we to wear, then???). But I can see Hollywood style long skirts drawing attention to form fitting details of a woman's body. So maybe that is the point being made.
Men can help their wives and daughters by gently, lovingly, and spiritually guiding us in our choices. In fact a friend of mine last week told me her daughter not only had to get her Dad's approval before she left the house, she had three older brothers she had to get past, too! More than once the brothers sent her back upstairs to change! LOL!!! How loved that girl must have felt, even in the midst of frustration with her brothers!!! What a gift those brothers gave their sister! I am sure, at the time(!), she didn't exactly think about it as a favor, but now as a young woman, those brothers are the ones she turns to for advice!
We women tend to think in terms of "fashion" and staying current. I personally feel a huge pressure (self-imposed, I am sure!) to keep myself looking the best I can... It's a shattering blow to the self-esteem when a husband wants to participate in porn or, as my husband did, have affairs. But I always try to seek my husband's input about the things I wear in public. I am wanting to please only one man... and that is my husband. And I want to be a testimony to God, too.
It's highly unlikely that there is a single "protection", not even a burqa (sp?), which the Muslims use to protect men against "lust" by forcing the women to be about as modest as is possible, short of being in a casket! From what I hear about the communities that impliment such means of "protection", lust is a huge problem!
I simply pray that each of us can take ownership of our own personal weaknesses, nail them to the cross, die to our flesh each day, and live to glorify HIM! HE is worthy!
Suzi
____________________
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Psa 119:37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
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forthelord33
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Posted: Tue Mar 13th, 2007 02:26 am |
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Just wanted to tell all of you that I'm really blessed by the supportive discussion and fellowship that is clearly evident in this string of postings. Since I'm a man, in the early,(4-5 months) of a sex and love addiction, I could not imagine going anywhere near the ShelleyLubben site. My addiction was manifest by seeing prostitutes and the internet was my portal to years and years of sinful actions. I'm glad that Ms. Lubben's ministry exists. I did once see the tail end of an interview that she did about her ministry and understand that the lord has to use her looks and style of dress to go to the dark places and minister to prostitutes and others involved in selling sex. It's not unlike a rough and tough looking biker that ministers to other bikers or a fashionable young youth pastor that has credibility when bringing the lord to troubled teenagers. But, I urge any men in recovery from sex addiction to avoid Ms. Lubben's website. The theme of the popular movie, "Pretty Woman." had a great impact on my engagement in prostitution. Despite having a wonderful wife at home, I sought prostitutes to find the one that was the "whore" with the heart of gold. I think that's a common drive for many men that see prostitutes. So, for a sex addict male to participate in any manner in a website that features sex workers, in recovery is toxic. There are great alternatives, such as these forums, to have fellowship with other men in recovery. These forums are also very potent to read how sex addiction has hurt so many good wifes and children. I have so profoundly hurt my wife and the future of our marriage is unknown.
Well, that's all for now and I thank Jesus, my lord and savior for another clean day.
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TROtoddUBLE
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Posted: Wed Mar 14th, 2007 05:10 pm |
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I've visited the Shelley Lubben sight and as someone else has mentioned was inspired by her testimony. I think she has a real message many of us need to hear.
I also think that avoidance is good in the early stages of our recovery (life long) from porn, however... like the person in recovery from alcohol addition or even the smoking or eating addictions we have to walk by "a bar" occasionally.
In other words, I make a decision to make what I see erotic, I choose to look for the answer to my depression, or my "funk".
Where I need to be in my addiction recovery is at a point where, it tastes bad looks bad, and I'm mad at the thought of me even considering what I see as erotic (similar to the person who quits smoking and after it's successful actually despises it enough to tell others how bad it is).
Those of us that have been deep in the addiction (not intended as a contest of whose done what) can virtually "make" ANYTHING erotic.
Shelley Lubben's site, attacks the "beast" from another side, I personally applaud her courage, (since I can only imagine the walls, criticisms, and demons that have been and probably still are attacking her and her family.
How many of us could publicly proclaim their problem with porn?
We can only guess how it would attack us back, in our homes, our jobs, our community, churches and families.
I also know that most of us should not, CANNOT, deliberately put themselves in a position to view anything pornographic, (or erotic) ever.
Shelley Lubben's web site should be a tool in each of our walks (battles) to freedom from our porn addiction
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forthelord33
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Posted: Thu Mar 15th, 2007 12:35 am |
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Thanks,
I agree that Ms. Lubben has great courage and a strong love for the lord. Her ministry is essential as who else but a former porn star could have the credibility to reach out to other women that still do porn movies, strip or prostitute themselves.
I don't agree with your use of the "walk by the bar" analogy in this case. For most male sex addicts, the internet is very, very dangerous. I repeat that male, sex addicts should avoid Ms. Lubben's site. It's clearly not intended for them. I have a really big heart for my brothers in recovery and don't want them to fool themselves into getting triggered by her site. They can rejoice in knowing that she is bringing light to some very dark places but best to stay away.
I get plenty of practice in "walking by the bar" everyday, when I chose to quickly divert my eyes when I see apparently attractive women at church, on the street, in my office or at the gym. I don't believe that Jesus gives me too much to handle but the challenges/opportunites to deepen my faith come daily. I anticipate that it will be this way for a long time and daily vigilence is essential.
If a male sex and love addict wants to enhance there recovery through fellowship with women, a safer alternative would be attending a mixed meeting of Sex and Love anonymous.
Cheers, and god bless,
Marc
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