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sam
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Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2008 12:45 pm |
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hi lilly,
i appreciate your question. speaking first hand as a person who struggles, there is a huge amount of help derived from being here and being honest about the issues i face. there are many times where i fall back into the things that i know are wrong, but my heart really wants to not go there anymore. being here, i have found a safe place to open up and say yes, i messed up. sometimes, admitting it is the hardest thing to do. once it is out in the open, i feel better, stronger. most importantly i feel accepted no matter what. and when i do fall, there are people here who have been through similar things that don't hesitate to encourage me not to give up, challenge me to do better, and actually pray for me. there is amazing power in prayer. i respectfully disagree with your opinion about walking a fine line between enabling and inspiring change. if you are not the person who is going through the addiction and compulsions, maybe you just don't understand how truly torn you are inside. how nothing about this makes sense. for the most part of myself, i want to glorify god with everything that i am and these feelings i have are so totally out of character with the rest of me. i need to have a place such as this to share my true self and not fear rejection and condemnation. i also need it for people to pray for me to break free of this problem.
in christ,
sam
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Lilly
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Posted: Tue Jan 8th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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Thanks for your reply sam, it seems that this forum has been a great help to you, which means you are genuinely wanting change.
And im sure there are some wonderfull supportive people here, who have a call on their life to support people in addiction.
But i have come across many posts that seem to be 'avoiding' the reality of their situations; and even projecting their behaviour onto God as part of His character, which is deluded thinking.
God will allow us to remain in delusion if we refuse to obey Him, not just once...but continually- justifying our behaviours, making excuses, minimising the consequences etc
There seems to be many people in different stages of awareness of their addiction which is normal for a peer support group of any kind; but the cross contamination is also an issue, and there will alwasy be addicts who use groups such as this to make themselves feel better about their situatuation, and its those that im refering to with the enabling thing.
Sometimes you have to just call a spade a spade.
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Seeking God
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 12:51 am |
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Hi Lily,
Welcome!
Thanks for your input,
Is there anything that we may help you?
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Man
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Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 06:57 am |
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| It might not be to the worse to be here even if nothing changes, or? It might be a better situation for those who are here if nothing changes than beeing alone?
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Lilly
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 09:45 am |
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Firstly, i stubled across this forum completly accidentally, and to be honest, was totally shocked to find brothers and sisters in christ bound by such addictions.
Furthermore, having professional training in the area of addiction, i found this forum to be too comfortable; yes pple need to be comfortable opening themselves up about issues, but also honest enough with themselves to not only admit a problem, but to invest in recovery, sometimes brutal honesty is needed to shed light on excuse making.
Secodly, christ died to set us free, it is our responsability to walk in that freedom. With issues of addiction accountability face to face may be a great idea. My church distributes pc programs that track sites visited online for those who seek online pornography, and its verry successfull, with leaders meeting weekly with those who participate.
Also, as a christian it goes against the spirit of God to exploit pples sexuality in whatever means, therefor remaining spiritauly sensative is key to changing behaviour patterns.
Christians have access to the most powerfull resource in the universe, purhaps its time for some to make better use of that opportunity.
And on the point of it not being worse if nothing changes, it is actually worse as it allows a sense of comfortability within the addiction, something that is counter productive to recovery, and kinda defeats the whole point of attempting change.
its good for addicts to be in a peer focused support network, when that support is effective, when it is not, it also defeats the point of peer support.
Isolation isnt productive, but either is being proped up in an addiction.
There is much fluffy, soft, feel good preaching going on in modern churches, which is a diservice to those who need the truth and the challenge of the christian walk, and not just a nice message.
I am by no means exempt from anything i speak of, but none would get away with this kinda thing in my home church- i am used to being challenged in all areas, and its difficult to see other christians missing out on something that could be of great benefit.
Gods word hasnt changed, it is us who percieves it differently- yes we are saved, but does that change who God is, and His standards?? No, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Which means His statutes are also the same.
While thousands of pple on earth are waiting to hear the gospel, hungry for it, there are too many christians concerned about themselves.... recovery from addiction liberates pple up to minister and fullfill the great commision, especially when they have the truth sitting in their lap.
All are called to touch the world for christ, but few are chosen; in this day and age, i dont think we have the luxury to just chip away slowly at our own misgivings, and remain in our comfort zone-while pple are being tortutred and murdered for reading the gospel we in the west seem to take for granted.
There is a much bigger picture going on, its time for all christians to expand their horizons, and stop thinking of only themselves.
Last edited on Wed Jan 16th, 2008 09:46 am by Lilly
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 10:03 am |
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greetings lily,
and all of God's people said "Amen".
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Man
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 10:07 am |
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It might be reasons why a man or woman can´t change everything immediately. Maybe he or she doesn´t want, but all the same I guess those people might need a place where they are accepted. And that might be God´s grace: To accept the person, but not the actions that destroy me..
For example, drug addicts who don´t immediately come free: It might be okay to support and help them.
And you Lilly, how do you live? Do you struggle with something continously? or don´t you think it sometimes take some time with holiness-prosesses?
Be blessed all of you Last edited on Wed Jan 16th, 2008 10:12 am by Man
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Lilly
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 11:05 am |
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Hi man, I understand the point you are making, and its true that recovery from addiction is a process, some people take longer than others.
But there is a difference between realising one has an addiction, and knowing it for sometime, but not doing the most to change it.
Change is the acive expression of the desire for something different, and knowing...understanding the impacts of an addiction. Without this insight, recovery is a far way off.
In the same vein, active attempt at recovery expresses this desire for change and the intents of the individual in this area are self evident.
I dont intend to destroy anyone, and yes Gods grace provides for all needs.
My point is that its dangerous to become confortable within an addiction.
And yes i do struggle with my christian walk, but all glory to God, i have been liberated from my addictions, which were not of the sexual kind btw.
I dont profess to not struggle in life, but God is God, and entertaining the thought that we are right with God while we do something we know is unhealthy and exploitive/abusive, without remorse or active attempts at change, is simply untrue.
When i first read posts in this forum, my spirit was grieved and i instantly knew much was astray, thats why i began posting.
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guitarist63
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 01:55 pm |
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Christ came to save sinners, not the righteous. He said so. From the top.
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sam
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 02:05 pm |
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yes guitarist, that is the absolute truth. if we could have been perfect on our own, he would not have had to die for us. we should all be truly thankful that he suffered for our transgressions and that our father is a god of mercy. he does want us to turn from our sins because he is righteous but when we are in a battle with the flesh, such as with sexual sin, he wants us to lean on him for the strength to get through. it is all a process of becoming more like him.
sam
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 03:25 pm |
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how many righteous are there?
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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guitarist63
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Posted: Wed Jan 16th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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Nobody is righteous, except of course, God. God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We have righteousness only if we are saved by faith and then Christ's righteousness becomes our righteousness. There are those who consider themselves righteous and have a judging temperament and they are hypocrites.
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Seeking God
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 10:56 pm |
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Guys,
I think we need to take time to breathe for a while.
Lilly's post may tasted bitter to us, it may cut us through the heart. But let us stop for a while, hear her words, and seek if it is true, and biblical.
The Word clearly says,
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. (Pro 27:17)
"Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets. (Luk 6:26)
Brothers,
The bible clearly says, when the truth are brought by the apostles, and prophets, men often try to kill them, because it made them angry... Let us heed the sound advice of Gamaliel.
And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" So they took his advice, (Act 5:35-39)
Men, let us have a noble heart like the jews in Berea, let us examine the advices given to us, no matter how painful it is.
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (Act 17:11)
To God be the glory
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guitarist63
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 05:39 pm |
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This site is intended for people to heal. People, many of whom have deep wounds and it does not help those here who are in pain to be given a sermon by somebody who has no experience of these sufferings, no sympathy whatever for what the people of this site have endured. My answer to Lilly is that you have no right to barge in here and pontificate as you have. How dare you presume to do so. I think you should leave.
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Lilly
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 07:04 pm |
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Dont worrey guituarist, i will
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Man
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 02:00 am |
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Seeking God wrote: Guys,
I think we need to take time to breathe for a while.
Lilly's post may tasted bitter to us, it may cut us through the heart. But let us stop for a while, hear her words, and seek if it is true, and biblical.
The Word clearly says,
Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. (Pro 27:17)
"Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets. (Luk 6:26)
Brothers,
The bible clearly says, when the truth are brought by the apostles, and prophets, men often try to kill them, because it made them angry... Let us heed the sound advice of Gamaliel.
And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" So they took his advice, (Act 5:35-39)
Men, let us have a noble heart like the jews in Berea, let us examine the advices given to us, no matter how painful it is.
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. (Act 17:11)
To God be the glory
Seeking God; Have you done this yourself and what kind of results did it give for you?
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Man
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 02:05 am |
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Lilly; be blessed.
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Seeking God
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 11:22 am |
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I'm sorry,
I don't seem to understand your question man,
I was saying that we need to listen the advices given to us, and seek from the bible if it was true or not.
So what are you asking?
Of course I read her post, and I agree at her post at some point because it was biblical. I don't know the fruit of it yet...
Anyhow,
Why did you ask?
Why don't you just do it yourself and see the result?
Then you will know if it was the truth or not. I'm just encouraging you to do that you know, I don't want to push anyone, if you have a problem with that, it's ok, it's your choice anyway.
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Man
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 02:15 pm |
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Seeking God wrote: Guys,
I think we need to take time to breathe for a while.
Lilly's post may tasted bitter to us, it may cut us through the heart. But let us stop for a while, hear her words, and seek if it is true, and biblical.
Brothers,
The bible clearly says, when the truth are brought by the apostles, and prophets, men often try to kill them, because it made them angry... Let us heed the sound advice of Gamaliel.
Men, let us have a noble heart like the jews in Berea, let us examine the advices given to us, no matter how painful it is.
To God be the glory
Okay Seeking God
Do you take a breath for a while?
Did you stop for a while, hear her words and seek if it is true and biblical?
Did you heed the sound advice of Gemaliel?
Do you have a noble heart like the Jews in Berea?
and do you examine the advices given to us, no matter how painful it is?
And do you give God the glory?
What are the results?
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Man
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Posted: Sat Jan 19th, 2008 02:20 pm |
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What I might think is difficult, is when I am beeing told and explained what to do in here. Maybe we have different opinion. I don't know. I think it can be really frustrating, really: Told and explained things kindo from above..
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